3V and folders, uneducated and confused.

4

420j2fan

Joined
Nov 10, 2022
Messages
7
I see people who want folders in 3v, personally, I don't get it.
Why would you want 3v steel in a folder when it has edge retention lower than D2 and it's advantage is excellent toughness and you can't take of in a folder.
Seems to me to be an excellent steel for a fix blade, but for a folder? I just don't get it.
Cruware / 4v for toughness / s90v for edge retention seem like they would be superior to me, what am I missing?

No trolls please.
 
1. I've chipped out D2 blades before doing basic daily tasks, hasn't happend with 3v... (yet)

2. Edge retention has been similar between the two in my use.

3. Better corrosion resistance with 3v if you stay sweaty like me.

Don't think you are missing anything, everybody has certain tastes. I like older Range Rovers even though they're super unreliable, doesn't mean that I have to justify it..
 
420j2fan said:
I see people who want folders in 3v, personally, I don't get it.
Why would you want 3v steel in a folder when it has edge retention lower than D2 and it's advantage is excellent toughness and you can't take of in a folder.
Seems to me to be an excellent steel for a fix blade, but for a folder? I just don't get it.
Cruware / 4v for toughness / s90v for edge retention seem like they would be superior to me, what am I missing?

No trolls please.
Click to expand...

Simple, CPM-3v is less likely to chip when it's in a thin blade stock compared to something like S90v, depending on what you're cutting. Especially if you're cutting a pretty abrasive material full of particles like sand (think dirty rope), that superior toughness can handle coming into contact with those hard sand particles which might mean better edge retention compared to a brittle steel that'll microchip like crazy when it hits the sand in that rope (ie. the S90V and S110V's of the world). Also CPM-3v is slightly more stainless than Cru-Wear in addition to being tougher, edge retention isn't the end all be all of knives, otherwise all knives would be made of ceramic, obsidian, glass or similarly chippy, ultra high wear resistance materials.

Now for my own little aside- There's this trend I see in the knife community that's kind of silly IMO. People make these big thick knives in super tough steels like CPM-3V and Cru-Wear and then these super thin slicey knives in something like S90V, when IMO it should be the other way around. A tough steel (ie. CPM-3v) can handle being ground super thin and slicey without horrendous amounts of micro chipping, whereas a steel prone to chipping like S90v might benefit from a thicker blade stock. A steel like 1095 that has a measured toughness less than many modern stainless steels (at higher HRC's nonetheless) has a reputation for being tough because everyone making knives in 1095 are making super thick knives. In theory, if we're going by Dr. Larrin's numbers, something like an Esee-5 in S-35vn would actually be stronger than an Esee-5 in it's standard 1095 assuming both steels are at the same hardness. So what's with this trope of making sharpened prybars in tough steel that if ground thin would hold an excellent edge with close to no micro chipping for 99% of knife related tasks and then making these super thin knives in steels that will microchip while cutting cardboard?
 
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420j2fan said:
I see people who want folders in 3v, personally, I don't get it.
Why would you want 3v steel in a folder when it has edge retention lower than D2 and it's advantage is excellent toughness and you can't take of in a folder.
Seems to me to be an excellent steel for a fix blade, but for a folder? I just don't get it.
Cruware / 4v for toughness / s90v for edge retention seem like they would be superior to me, what am I missing?
Click to expand...
Occasionally people post that they have broken the blade of their _____. Folding knives have complicated blade shapes with holes for thumb opening devices, holes for the pivot, and notches for locking devices. A little toughness helps around things like this. And of course someone already mentioned the very thin tips that some folders have.
 
It’s easier to understand if you’ve ever been around some people who can break an anvil with a rubber mallet. I have seen what a few guys have done with their knives be it cheap junk steel or high end super steel. In just a few months they can have them mangled, tips broken off or broke in half. The Gilligan types if you’ve ever seen Gilligans island .

I myself like my folders and short blades under 4 inches to be edge holding and I’ll give up a bit of toughness . For my longer fixed blades, 4+ inches I prefer them to have more toughness and I’ll give up some edge retention. I also believe good heat treatment makes a difference, someone who knows how to cook steel and get the best out of it whichever steel it be. Design and geometry also makes a difference and I’m not into thick sharpened prybars either.
 
Well gotta say these responses have been insightful, I'm not one to put a ton of wear and tear on my knife blades so I don't usually worry about something so tough, but I can see where everyone is coming from. Thanks for the info everybody! Always fun to learn new stuff. Anybody got opinions on magnacut yet? I've got a Spyderco mule in it but haven't done much of anything with it, curious if anyone has opinions on that also.
 
420j2fan said:
Well gotta say these responses have been insightful, I'm not one to put a ton of wear and tear on my knife blades so I don't usually worry about something so tough, but I can see where everyone is coming from. Thanks for the info everybody! Always fun to learn new stuff. Anybody got opinions on magnacut yet? I've got a Spyderco mule in it but haven't done much of anything with it, curious if anyone has opinions on that also.
Click to expand...
I have an Oz Machine Company Roosevelt in MagnaCut that I've used quite a bit with a HRC of 62 and the blade is incredibly thin behind the edge and it's tackled everything impressively so far, from cutting zip ties to everything else... No rolled edges, no chips, and still incredibly sharp. I have a 20cv hinderer that has all of the above from half the amount of use the Roosevelt has been put through lol. I'm impressed with it. I haven't used my 3V quite as much in comparison but I'm looking forward to trying out that steel too. Idk if it's just me or maybe I have a bad example but I don't like 20CV at all, same thing with M390 so far... but we'll see.
 
420j2fan said:
I see people who want folders in 3v, personally, I don't get it.
Why would you want 3v steel in a folder when it has edge retention lower than D2 and it's advantage is excellent toughness and you can't take of in a folder.
Seems to me to be an excellent steel for a fix blade, but for a folder? I just don't get it.
Cruware / 4v for toughness / s90v for edge retention seem like they would be superior to me, what am I missing?

No trolls please.
Click to expand...
Though I agree that Cruwear and 4V make excellent knives I like 3V also including in folders. To me the difference in abrasive wear resistance from say 440C up to 4V and S30v isn't all that much and I consider them all in the same class wear resistance wise. Even though 3V has better wear resistance than D2 it isn't enough for me to worry about.

It's about getting the balance off attributes I need, like or just want. For me 3v is well into the list of steels I like for knife use and I don't mind using it for folders. Then again I might select something different if I am ordering a custom but if a knife I like has 3v instead of 4V it won't stop me from using and liking it.

440C is in the same class wear resistance wise as 3v it doesn't have the attribute balance I prefer so I tend to not buy or use knives in that steel. . Maxamet has much higher wear resistance than 3V but to me that itself doesn't make it better. Or worse.
 
I am one of those people and was preparing to explain my answer to the question 4 420j2fan posted.

K kafolarbear comes along and posts his reply and I couldnt have stated it better. Tougher steel could be run thinner and create a better geometry. If I could get a Spyderco Military in 3V that is even thinner behind the edge, it would be the only knife I own.

3V has been shown to be pretty corrosion resistant, VERY tough and its wear resistance is good enough. The heat treat protocol can be adjusted to maximize any one of those attributes or balance them all.

My fixed blade 3V (brand that I shall not mention here) has proven amazing and its edge is VERY thin. It strops to shaving sharp fast and I have yet to touch up the knife on stones.

Part of the reason Ive been pushing for Spyderco and some others to make a 3V folder is because the options are few and the stocks generally overly thick. AD20.5, hinderer and maybe something I am forgetting are out there but im not a fan of the design of either of those two.

The wharnie hinderer posted above looks nice, but if its a flipper then I wont buy it. I hate them.
 
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It appears CPM 3V has great properties for being used in kitchen knives. But I wonder why we do not see many kitchen knives use this steel?
 
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