3v HRC Debacle

willc said:
Pretty sure BM won’t do uncoated 3v in folders cause of corrosion in pivot area.

Never had much problem with my fixed blade pivots.
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I believe the pivot areas on coated 3v and m4 are uncoated. There is a picture on page 2 and I believe the 810s I have and had are uncoated in the pivot and tang (the tang where the axis bar contacts for sure).
 
craytab said:
I'm no apologist for any company. I don't own many benchmades. 4 or 5 maybe. For my uses, the inherent flaws of the axis lock are an issue (weak detent and the reliance on omega springs). I've stated that I don't even like the idea of this knife and would not buy one.

What I take issue with is the "sky is falling" mentality of these threads. It sounds to me like bm is delivering exactly what they are advertising, yet because BM isn't doing what a few people want on the internet, those loud few turn chicken little.

If you don't like what BM is advertising and selling, don't buy it. I'm not sure how much my simple it gets.
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"Sky is falling?" You're being melodramatic there. There are issues with a model Benchmade put out. In my tests, they have reached their ambiguous range. In other's tests, they have not. If they had been more forthright on their intended target, this model would probably be close to being discontinued.
Using the term "chicken little" doesn't make your statement any more profound. Just as you feel free to point out what you perceive as faults in Benchmade products, people have every right to air their displeasure with the product and business practice. Somehow, that seems to bother you immensely. I wonder why.

Now, would you like to move the conversation to the 57 HRC Anthem and tackle that issue?
 
Cypress said:
https://knifenews.com/heat-treating-steel/
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I didn't ask 'does heat treatment affect the properties of the steel, in particular free chromium in solution?'. I was asking if you knew of any specific example of heat-treated 3V with lower resulting corrosion resistance than M4 (with some unspecified but presumably "good" heat treatment).

Or is this just a hypothetical situation like 'hardened, untempered Cru-wear may have higher corrosion resistance than S30V tempered at very high temperature'? I don't think anyone in practice is experiencing either of these scenarios.
 
jcoolG19 said:
"Sky is falling?" You're being melodramatic there. There are issues with a model Benchmade put out. In my tests, they have reached their ambiguous range. In other's tests, they have not. If they had been more forthright on their intended target, this model would probably be close to being discontinued.
Using the term "chicken little" doesn't make your statement any more profound. Just as you feel free to point out what you perceive as faults in Benchmade products, people have every right to air their displeasure with the product and business practice. Somehow, that seems to bother you immensely. I wonder why.

Now, would you like to move the conversation to the 57 HRC Anthem and tackle that issue?
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The terms I have used convey the exact meaning I intend. The sky is not falling. The world isn't coming to an end. It appears to me that benchmade is providing a product exactly as they intended. Wouldn't be my choice and that's why I won't be getting one. But to call this a debacle is the melodramatic part. If people don't like the product delivered as advertised, they shouldn't be buying it. In fact, going on a witch hunt, buying the product only to "test", creates sales for the claimed inferior product, which has the potential to prolong its production.

The specs are out there in the catalog. Benchmade has explained their decision. Do your research on a knife and decide to buy it or not, but don't make this out to be far more than what it is.
 
ekastanis said:
I didn't ask 'does heat treatment affect the properties of the steel, in particular free chromium in solution?'. I was asking if you knew of any specific example of heat-treated 3V with lower resulting corrosion resistance than M4 (with some unspecified but presumably "good" heat treatment).

Or is this just a hypothetical situation like 'hardened, untempered Cru-wear may have higher corrosion resistance than S30V tempered at very high temperature'? I don't think anyone in practice is experiencing either of these scenarios.
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Oh, highly specific examples? I can see that you don’t want me to be right about this, so here goes: I have 3V at 60 HRC (Bark River Aurora II). It has experienced rust from ambient moisture. My M4 at 64 HRC (Benchmade 810) experienced much the same amount. Lowering the HRC of the 3V by 5 (?!) to 55 would cause it to rust much more, which would put it in a significantly worse category than Benchmade’s M4.

Is that too anecdotal for you? I mean, you seem to have an understanding of how this works, so at this point I think you’re attacking the messenger and ignoring the obvious message.
 
Cypress said:
Oh, highly specific examples? I can see that you don’t want me to be right about this, so here goes: I have 3V at 60 HRC (Bark River Aurora II). It has experienced rust from ambient moisture. My M4 at 64 HRC (Benchmade 810) experienced much the same amount. Lowering the HRC of the 3V by 5 (?!) to 55 would cause it to rust much more, which would put it in a significantly worse category than Benchmade’s M4.

Is that too anecdotal for you? I mean, you seem to have an understanding of how this works, so at this point I think you’re attacking the messenger and ignoring the obvious message.
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I don't think anything I posted would be perceived as an attack on you, but if it did come across that way, please forgive me, it was not my intent.

This is exactly what I was asking about, thank you. I haven't ever heard anyone relate an experience like this so that's very interesting. I often see photos of M4 blades covered in black patina or rusted, but not so for 3V. In any case BM seems to be doing fine with the corrosion resistance of 3V in the 200 Puukko, I'm not taking any special care of mine and it's still looking great.
 
craytab said:
The terms I have used convey the exact meaning I intend. The sky is not falling. The world isn't coming to an end. It appears to me that benchmade is providing a product exactly as they intended. Wouldn't be my choice and that's why I won't be getting one. But to call this a debacle is the melodramatic part. If people don't like the product delivered as advertised, they shouldn't be buying it. In fact, going on a witch hunt, buying the product only to "test", creates sales for the claimed inferior product, which has the potential to prolong its production.

The specs are out there in the catalog. Benchmade has explained their decision. Do your research on a knife and decide to buy it or not, but don't make this out to be far more than what it is.
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No one is implying is the skyfalling or even remotely saying anything similar, except you! A debacle is a fairly accurate term. As I have said, some have tested below their ambiguous range. You obviously avoided that issue, as well.
Testing products is now a witch hunt? Do you actually read what you write before you hit the post reply button? It doesn't seem like it. Going through life with that kind of blind faith isn't wise. Good luck to ya!
 
jcoolG19 said:
No one is implying is the skyfalling or even remotely saying anything similar, except you! A debacle is a fairly accurate term. As I have said, some have tested below their ambiguous range. You obviously avoided that issue, as well.
Testing products is now a witch hunt? Do you actually read what you write before you hit the post reply button? It doesn't seem like it. Going through life with that kind of blind faith isn't wise. Good luck to ya!
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No blind faith at all. I can read the numbers from BM. Far too low for me. That is why I wouldn't buy. But it is not a surprise or a debacle. It was known, explained, and deliberately done.

As for me reading what I post, yes I do. I know you've been here a hot minute with only 5 posts so you may not have seen other posts I have made all over the forum. I can tell you they are all of great quality :p :D
 
craytab said:
No blind faith at all. I can read the numbers from BM. Far too low for me. That is why I wouldn't buy. But it is not a surprise or a debacle. It was known, explained, and deliberately done.

As for me reading what I post, yes I do. I know you've been here a hot minute with only 5 posts so you may not have seen other posts I have made all over the forum. I can tell you they are all of great quality :p :D
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They never explained it until days after test results were made public. That's pretty well known!
You have forgotten a couple issues...again. I have read some of your latest stuff. That's why I was compelled to ask.
 
jcoolG19 said:
They never explained it until days after test results were made public. That's pretty well known!
You have forgotten a couple issues...again. I have read some of your latest stuff. That's why I was compelled to ask.
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It's in the catalog. And if a consumer cares so much about hrc, wouldn't one only buy after those numbers are disclosed? I know that is what I would do, and have!
 
craytab said:
It's in the catalog. And if a consumer cares so much about hrc, wouldn't one only buy after those numbers are disclosed? I know that is what I would do, and have!
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And the knives that tested lower than the catalog? You missed that...again.
The catalog says 55-58, the Benchmade rep says 56-59. The point is there are a lot of people that trust Benchmade's rep that they wouldn't do something so asinine as heat treat a pocket knife to 55 HRC! If it was a positive feature of that knife, why not put it on the advertisements, or maybe the webpage where they actually DO list the ranges of all their steels, except 3V! Not everyone is going to search high and low for it, but maybe try being a little more forthcoming to your customers. Avoid the negativity, and maybe not risk alienating future customers. That all could have been easily avoided. I guess they think your business model is better? Too stupid to find an abscure listing? Too bad, we got your money! Companies like that, and people like you are the reasons I do what I do.
 
Quick recap for those just joining the game.

Buy one of these and use it to cut stuff seems to be no problem.

Buy one of these and use it in an online "hardness" measuring contest and you could be sorry. Buyer beware indeed.
 
Danke42 said:
Quick recap for those just joining the game.

Buy one of these and use it to cut stuff seems to be no problem.

Buy one of these and use it in an online "hardness" measuring contest and you could be sorry. Buyer beware indeed.
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Online hardness measuring contest? That's so cute, you made a funny...well tried to anyway. I guess you have to be a forum groupie to actually use a knife, right?
 
jcoolG19 said:
And the knives that tested lower than the catalog? You missed that...again.
The catalog says 55-58, the Benchmade rep says 56-59. The point is there are a lot of people that trust Benchmade's rep that they wouldn't do something so asinine as heat treat a pocket knife to 55 HRC! If it was a positive feature of that knife, why not put it on the advertisements, or maybe the webpage where they actually DO list the ranges of all their steels, except 3V! Not everyone is going to search high and low for it, but maybe try being a little more forthcoming to your customers. Avoid the negativity, and maybe not risk alienating future customers. That all could have been easily avoided. I guess they think your business model is better? Too stupid to find an abscure listing? Too bad, we got your money! Companies like that, and people like you are the reasons I do what I do.
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Forgive me if I don't put a lot of faith in the testing that is done by random ig and YouTube folks. The folks that have reported here through actual use seem to be fine with the performance. And I'll repeat again that I think the hrc is too low. I just don't think it is the huge issue the ig, fb, and YouTube crowd is making it out to be. It's clear you and I don't agree on this and that is okay.
 
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