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3v HRC Debacle

Discussion in 'Benchmade Knife Company' started by T.L.E. Sharp, May 16, 2019.

  1. ArchVV

    ArchVV

    Sep 8, 2015
    This has been interesting. You guys are certainly dedicated, but expunging the world of deceptive advertising seems like a tall order. Would the current consumer (knife) market even exist without it? :rolleyes:
    I'm curious to see the results from the others manufacturers you intend to test.
     
    Alchemy1 likes this.
  2. Alchemy1

    Alchemy1

    914
    Dec 31, 2011
    The chart is already up. It’s been up for months, if not longer. This is literally the hundredth knife or more that’s been tested. @jcoolG19 has the running chart. All the info is put out consistently and as quickly as we can get it.

    All of the Spyderco data I got was posted on my IG as soon as I got it. If you swipe left, you can see every knife in the tester and read the numbers for yourself. I’ve also already recorded the detailed YT vid and it’ll be live next Saturday at 5am.

    Edit...
    I stand corrected. There are 195 knives that are on the chart and 6 are Benchmades. The most recent data has yet to be entered.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OepNr_D4lqbdTFqdqWl1rmAd4bOzPzJe6J0iEWrdJGU/htmlview

    46B3C3D4-0F07-4C26-A4C1-7364E13657E0.jpeg
    https://www.instagram.com/p/ByH3j3CJ3WK/?igshid=gs33zs0xad0r
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
    Banter 247, jux t, mdrgn79 and 3 others like this.
  3. Carlito86

    Carlito86

    68
    Apr 28, 2017
    Question Is when they are going to fix the HT. I would buy once It Is fixed, and I Guess that a lot of people Will do it. Maybe they just Will have to wait till the inventories go to zero
     
    mdrgn79 and din like this.
  4. Darkera

    Darkera

    331
    Oct 22, 2016
    This is really interesting and good stuff but I wonder if the HRC values for one model represent one measurement on one knife, multiple measurements on one knife, or what? I gather many of these measurements come from knives that users send in, so asking for 3-5 measurements may be too much for people, but a single measurement isn't necessarily indicative of the actual HRC. For example, you wouldn't take the height of a random coworker and extrapolate that as the average height in your building. It would be interesting to sacrifice a cheap knife to take multiple measurements within the same areas along the length of the blade to see what the standard deviation of the HRC is like.

    And don't take this as me trying to refute the BM test results, I'm just curious about the variability of the test results and material itself. And if you are testing a knife, might as well make a couple more measurements to get an average (assuming there is observed variability between measurements).
     
  5. Alchemy1

    Alchemy1

    914
    Dec 31, 2011
    Good questions and this is the dialogue that furthers the conversation. Each of the Bailouts (3) were measured at least 2 times. The first knife that was tested was measured 3 times. 2 times on the coating and once on the blade with the coating removed. We’ve done a lot of testing and my memory may be fuzzy, but I think that knife may have even been hit once or twice on the blade tang. The other Bailout(s) that Frankie Blades tested were hit twice on the exposed tang of the blade. Frankie got 55, all of the readings on the blades I sent in were around 56-56.5.

    We try to get as many samples as we can for specific models and/or specific steels. In this case, I emailed Benchmade and they confirmed that the numbers we saw on the first blade were indeed exactly what they wanted. I posted that email earlier.

    So, you can only have data on the knives that have been tested, but in this case, Benchmade has supported the findings.

    I have avoided adding my info here because it has already been said that a certain level of “fame” is being desired. This testing has been going on for months and months, as you guys can see that from the chart and the 195 knives that are listed on the chart. Several more have been tested since then, but the gent that manages the list is very busy.

    I said all of that to say this, if you search #makeknifesteelgreatagain on IG or go to my YT Page, you can see all of this info, in full detail. With comments from other Bailout owners.

    In my last video, I also included direct links to all of the gentleman involved in the testing and all of their cut tests, etc, can be found there.

    In that video, I also address what has been said here multiple times. This is NOT about Benchmade. For whatever reason, saying Benchmade’s name made everyone look and start to pay attention. This is about gathering information, having discussions, and growing in our steel knowledge as a community.

    Somewhere along the way people took that as clout chasing (as the kids say) and Benchmade “hate”. The chart has 195 knives listed and only 6 are Benchmades. I believe in letting facts speak for themselves. If 3% of the knives in an on going project is hate, what about all the other companies that make up a much larger portion of the testing?

    I do believe you have a genuine question that moves the conversation along. I’m speaking about this general situation.
     
  6. ArchVV

    ArchVV

    Sep 8, 2015
    Pretty nifty. I wonder what kind of results Microtechs would yield. They're about the only production models I still own.
     
  7. Mo2

    Mo2

    Apr 8, 2016
    They ain't. These hipsters really don't know any better. This isn't the old Benchmade we once knew. You should hear the bladehq bladeshow vid they had and what they took away from the video where deadboxhero did with the 3v in his abuse videos. Was hilarious that what they said. They are standing with it the way it is.

    Nope, it's all low. Even the puukko. Deadbox hero did some toughness tests on these including grinding it thin and testing too. Not to mention the multiple tests done show its all too low hrc.

    As long as the market is blind and follow trends as long as people buy knives to look at and or flip, as long as people can't tell the difference etc they will continue to sell them to the unsuspecting and fans of the brand. They are not open to enthusiasts in the knife community. I found this out a long time ago. For every enthusist there are at least 3 or 4 people who don't care. "it's good enough for there uses" or they bought it cause of how it looks or what ever it is normies say. Not all knife nuts are about the steel and cutting or use.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
    Cypress, mdrgn79 and Alchemy1 like this.
  8. Alchemy1

    Alchemy1

    914
    Dec 31, 2011
    I’m probably going to screw this up, but a SOCOM Elite was just tested in the past week or two (our chart guy is very busy). The steel was m390 or one of the analogs and I think it was 58 or 58.X. It’ll eventually be up on the chart.
     
    Banter 247, ArchVV and Mo2 like this.
  9. Mo2

    Mo2

    Apr 8, 2016
    Just read someone had one at 57hrc https://www.instagram.com/p/ByqfedqnPWL/?igshid=s980oe418l51
    inthepocket mentioned Vinny had one around 57 something. As you said, we'll probably see it in the chart soon.
     
    Alchemy1 likes this.
  10. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    Same. I've always found their steel to be well heat treated, and some of it seems to have been run quite hard on their past knives. Cutting performance on them seems to be just fine.
     
  11. dano

    dano

    Oct 3, 1998
    Why would they fix it? Benchmade did the HT purposefully, it's not a design or model defect, and they have no plans changing it.
     
    mtbaddict and craytab like this.
  12. Carlito86

    Carlito86

    68
    Apr 28, 2017
    Nope,this Is what they tell you: intentionally lower HRC in order to be cheaper to manifacture, and no One Is going to care. Now they do know the community noticed It and are making a mess out of It. Benchmade Is a top player, they should fix this.

    There Is no reason for 55 hrc, simple.
     
    AmosPaul and mdrgn79 like this.
  13. Alchemy1

    Alchemy1

    914
    Dec 31, 2011
    E3284045-6576-4B0F-8E49-27038FA6A4F5.jpeg To address questions about the validity of the readings that have been shared.
     
    Cypress, Mo2, mdrgn79 and 1 other person like this.
  14. colin.p

    colin.p

    734
    Feb 4, 2017
    Thank you for the unbiased information. Not like some other people in this thread who have their own agendas no doubt.
     
    Banter 247 and Alchemy1 like this.
  15. Filthyj24

    Filthyj24

    215
    Jan 5, 2016
    [​IMG]
    My opinion is based solely on usage and I can say these two are on pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum. I still love them both for different reasons.

    My Bailout is pretty damn soft. I'm not as uspet about it as some people. I bought it to replace a Kershaw knockout as my work knife and I do not treat it kindly. There is significant bend and flex in the knife that took me awhile to get used to but I'm honestly ok with it.

    The advantage of a softer steel is I can get it back to shaving sharp with just a few passes on the strop where as resharpening my Altitude is a sit down project.
     
  16. BMCGear

    BMCGear Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 4, 2014
    What does the rest say?
     
  17. Alchemy1

    Alchemy1

    914
    Dec 31, 2011
    It is a media release from Tuya knives saying that the same testing that gave us the 56 reading for the Bailout also found low readings on their knives. They confirmed the readings and are accepting knives back and/or giving out freebies (cheaper knife models) if you think your knife is “fine”.
     
    jux t, mdrgn79 and Banter 247 like this.

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