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4.7 3V used for the first time: significant edge damage

Discussion in 'Survive! Knives' started by Macchina, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. Macchina

    Macchina Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2006
    I have had a 4.7 Factory Second in 3V steel for about a year now (it's the version just before the Delta) and brought it to an island hunt this past week. It had the factory edge. I used it to gut and butcher a single white deer which includes cutting the sternum along the cartilage, skinning, and separating 4 shoulder/hip joints before cutting up the meat into sections. I didn't use the knife for any Bushcraft, wood, or other things aside from the single deer.

    The edge is significantly dulled, much more than I expected and actually bent in one area and chipped in another. Most of the edge reflects light which is very dull. I have butchered many deer using Fallkniven knives (VG10), Buck knives (420HC), and several Benchmades (D2 and S30V) and never experienced edge deformation after a deer. Rarely do I even need any more than a stropping to get an edge all the way back. I always touch bones during a deer (party of the process to debone), this is normal and never caused edge damage before.

    Were there ever any issues with a heat treat where the steel would be significantly softer than intended? Has this happened to anyone else?

    These are tough to photograph:

    IMG_20171105_221326~2.jpg IMG_20171105_221315~2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
    Teppojutsu likes this.
  2. Silver Needle

    Silver Needle

    Jul 14, 2014
    Wow, sorry to hear the knife didn't hold up.

    Is it a 4.1 or 4.7? Is it 3v steel?

    This is the first case I've heard of like yours. Sorry I don't have anything helpful to add!
     
  3. Macchina

    Macchina Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2006
    Sorry, it's a 4.7 in 3V steel. I updated the post to reflect that.

    I was actually really excited about this knife. Love the design and it was screaming sharp from the factory.
     
  4. Silver Needle

    Silver Needle

    Jul 14, 2014
    I've been using mine for quite awhile, but all on wood, never skinning. I know there have been plenty of serious hunters around, so I wonder if any of them will catch this thread.

    Do you think you can repair the edge or will you look into claiming the warranty?
     
  5. Hard Knocks

    Hard Knocks Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 1, 2012
    I have chipped knives with the original factory edge, not GSOs but others. I think sometimes the edge gets overheated finishing out production knives. You might fix it with a good sharpening, but I don't like the looks of that one deep one. Just make sure to keep it cool, D3V and the last protocol are both low temp processes.

    Is this a 4.7? As far as I know, all 4.1s are Delta whereas the 4.7s are the last tweak before the Delta. Whoops looks like we were posting at the same time.
     
    Teppojutsu and Oyster like this.
  6. Macchina

    Macchina Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2006
    I can definitely fix it with diamonds but 420HC and VG-10 should not be outclassing 3V by this much. I have done several deer with a few of my VG-10 Fallknivens (H1 and F1) without any sharpening in between and zero edge damage. They shave after a deer every time...
     
  7. 91bravo

    91bravo Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 2008
    Fur, hide and bone are really tough on a knife edge. Bone will almost always dull your edge if you run it across one too hard. This is coming from a deer hunter who has gutted and skinned close to a hundred deer over my lifetime. Doesn't matter what supersteel you have, if you contact a lot of bone with it, your edge will dull.
     
  8. Hard Knocks

    Hard Knocks Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 1, 2012
    I would fix that edge to the angle and finish you're familiar with and give it another run. I have little use with VG10 but lots of use with Buck's 420HC and it hasn't been able to run with any of the 3V I've had from any maker. If you still have problems after a good sharpening, then I'd contact the shop.
     
  9. LukeTheSpook

    LukeTheSpook

    Jan 2, 2015
    Sorry, I'll be the weirdo. I've done that to everyone of my knives I've used. Including 3V treated by peters.

    I don't skin deer but I do that type of edged damage on wood.
     
    musicisevil, Teppojutsu and grogimus like this.
  10. grogimus

    grogimus KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 27, 2012
    Unless you did something different like breaking a pelvis or something you should be seeing significantly better edge retention than those other steels by a long shot. I get damage like that and don't think much of it but I wouldn't expect it after dressing one deer. If it were me I'd sharpen it, use it, and if it seems to dull faster than anything else you have afterwards I'd send it back with some questions.
     
    Hard Knocks and Oyster like this.
  11. Packerrat

    Packerrat

    178
    Jul 4, 2017
    I've put mine through some serious abuse and had excellent reliability. Given your experience and ability to compare to previously used steels in near identical circumstances, I vote that you trust your gut and contact Survive! for warranty attention. I've never heard of a similar complaint, but nothing in life is 100% perfect all the time. You might just have been unlucky enough to get the first known glitch. :(

    I can't see the steel type stamp in the picture, but this does sound like damage I've seen on cpm20. never 3v before. I just sold a 5.1 that had been run through the grinder, abuse tested by a youtuber, batonned through metal, etc, and although dulled and scratched, didn't suffer damage like that.
    If you send it in to Guy for repair/evaluation, please update us on his analysis. Ellie said they'd usually be able to complete and ordinary sharpening request in around a week, depending on what station Guy happened to be working on when a knife came in.
     
    mbkingshane and Oyster like this.
  12. Oyster

    Oyster Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 2, 2011
    It does sound as though the HT might be off. I agree with the others that recommended sending it into the shop for evaluation. Alternatively, maybe have the hardness tested by another outfit.

    And yes, by all means, please keep us updated.
     
    Packerrat likes this.
  13. Oyster

    Oyster Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 2, 2011
    +1 on what @Hard Knocks said.
    It is entirely possible that the HT is only off at the edge and that the problem goes away with a few sharpenings - I know this has been the case with other knives by other makers. Maybe try that first before going to the trouble/expense of sending it out.
     
  14. Macchina

    Macchina Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2006
    I contacted them this morning. I'll keep you posted as to what they say.
    I was really hoping this 3V would be amazing stuff but it's looking like some of the most damage-prone stuff I've ever used...
     
    Teppojutsu likes this.
  15. Oyster

    Oyster Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 2, 2011
    I don’t think your experience is typical for the steel, rather more an issue with the specific blade or batch.
     
    mbkingshane and Hard Knocks like this.
  16. scout1sg

    scout1sg

    925
    Nov 9, 2009
    I agree with the others as well, I dressed out many deer and lately using a Benchmade model in D2 cutting in/around bone to include cutting right up clean through the cartilage of the brisket and other than some slight dulling never had any chipping on a steel I almost expected a little. I would believe they'll get it take care of for ya. I wouldn't trust my sharpening skills as I believe I remove way more stock than needed to refine the chip area.
     
  17. Teppojutsu

    Teppojutsu

    942
    Jan 18, 2015
    I gotta say,
    I was super hyped up on 3v too(not delta HT) and i bought a blade from a Well known maker.

    I play with all my knives . Bad habit .

    I ended up rolling the edge when i brushed the edge of my buckle :(
    Granted its my fault, I was disappointed none the less.:cool:
     
  18. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Purportedly @Brian77 does lots of butchering and I know that he owns a bevy of knives both in 3V and D3V from Survive! and also from Carothers, among some other ones perhaps. I am quite sure that he will chime in with his own experiences although I have not seen him on here for about a handful of days now.
     
  19. mete

    mete Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 10, 2003
    Knives in general --many knives including good brands have a chance of overheating thus softening the edge during grinding .Two or three sharpenings ,by hand !! usually removes the soft layer.
    A deer's shin bone is 7 times harder than a cows !!
    There is no need to 'skin' a deer as it can easily be removed by mostly pulling it of. If you do decide to skin a deer work from inside out to minimizing cutting through mud caked fur !
     
  20. Macchina

    Macchina Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 7, 2006
    @mete
    I've heard this said many times about the heat generated during factory sharpening but this goes against what I remember from my metallurgy classes. Classic tempering takes place at a decently high temperature (300°-600°) for hours and adds color to virgin steel. Even relatively low levels of heat will color steel which means if we're seeing an instantaneous temper from hardening it would have to be a much higher temperature than standard temper and it would definitely color. Any heat that affects temper should be readily apparent:
    Tempering_standards_used_in_blacksmithing.JPG
     

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