420HC stainless vs 440

Phil Wilson makes custom knives out of 420 HC and I'd call his knives pretty good indeed, its what he recommend for kitchen knives, but an arguement could be made for other styles depending on what the user wants. He usually runs it at ~ 55 HRC, he also has S90V at ~63 HRC if you like them a bit harder.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Phil Wilson makes custom knives out of 420 HC and I'd call his knives pretty good indeed, its what he recommend for kitchen knives, but an arguement could be made for other styles depending on what the user wants. He usually runs it at ~ 55 HRC, he also has S90V at ~63 HRC if you like them a bit harder.

-Cliff
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I don't think Phil makes those out of 420HC. I believe he uses 420V(S90V).
 
He does use S90V for kitchen knives at times, and has made others, even CPM-10V, but feels 420 HC makes an excellent kitchen knife, I bought one from him and discussed it with him extensively. It is basically an issue of ease of sharpening in the kitchen and greater toughness and corrosion resistance of 420 HC.

-Cliff
 
very interesting.....first time I've heard of it.
 
Jeff Clark said:
440C is a harder and more wear resistant steel. One of the reasons that Buck knives stopped using it was that their customer's had trouble getting it sharp. Buck first went to 425M, but this still gave their customers sharpening problems. Most recently they went to 420HC as their standard steel because it was easier to sharpen than 425M. That still wasn't giving their customers the cutting performance that they wanted so Buck went to a thinner hollow grind blade profile that they called Edge 2000. Now an average guy can get a high performing edge. It won't stay sharp as long as 440C, but for most people it will be sharper.

I am one of those guys who cursed the original 440C in Buck knives. I was good at sharpening, but no matter what I did it would never take the type of razor edge that I insist on for my knives. I developed a lifelong prejudice against the 440 series steels back in the 1960's. They are very heavy in chrome and to me take second rate edges. They are my least favorite. I even like them less than ATS134/154CM which I also dislike for the same reasons. 420HC is OK in a knife that I don't expect to stay sharp during the process of skinning an elk. For example it would be OK if I was only hunting deer.
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I have a Buck odyssey with 420HC i cant sharpen it the way i want it to save my life.I dont have anything that uses 440 so i dont have anything to make a comparison. Any suggestions on a good way to put a good edge on the 420HC?
 
Well at the risk of continuing to add to a 5-year old thread, I will suggest a Spyderco Sharpmaker for you. It does a very nice job on 420HC.

I have no problems sharpening Buck 420HC on either natural stone or ceramic.
Buck 420HC is a bit harder to sharpen than Case Tru-Sharp, but the Buck 420HC holds an edge better.
 
j.bowie said:
Easier to stamp because its not as hard as the 440 was.
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Kind of

420HC is softer and more formable in the annealed state than 440A. So you can fine-blank 420HC, but not 440A.

(However, 440A is still easier to work with than 440B or 440C.)
 
knarfeng said:
Well at the risk of continuing to add to a 5-year old thread, I will suggest a Spyderco Sharpmaker for you. It does a very nice job on 420HC.

I have no problems sharpening Buck 420HC on either natural stone or ceramic.
Buck 420HC is a bit harder to sharpen than Case Tru-Sharp, but the Buck 420HC holds an edge better.
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Thats true,In my understanding the harder it is to sharpen the longer it stays sharp i guess thats the trade off.
 
I know that Kershaw uses fine blanking. Not sure if they fine blank 440A. Might be possible if they use a press with enough oomph.
 
then spend the $10 for basic membership and make your life easier ya cheap bastids!:D
 
Buck's moves from 440C to 425M to 420HC were about productivity and ability to fine blank. In the early 80s, Buck purchased new blanking equipment and found 440C didn't work very well on it (to hard) and thus the move to 425M in 1981. Buck's move to 420HC in 1994 was again to achieve another order of magnitude in productivity.

This discussion of "people couldn't sharpen 440C" was not the real issue. Reduced unit cost through increased productivity was the goal both times.

Now edge 2000 was specifically aimed at improving the profiles of Buck knives for improved cutting, edge retention, and ease of sharpening.

Latrobe's 420HC as heat treated by Paul Bos at Buck is a superb user steel. Extremely high stain resistence, the ablility to take a very fine edge, and reasonable edge holding. It is as good a steel as the most will ever require. I like it and have no problems with it.

I would like to see Buck bring back 440C with Edge 2000 as a Custom Shop option.
 
Interesting this thread should resurrect itself now. I used a hammer to pound a Buck 119 (newer one with 420 and the Edge 2X) through a 4 inch limb on a tree yesterday. It was the only cutting option I had with me at the time. Amazingly enough it was still shaving sharp after that abuse--there must be something to that Paul Bos heat treatment after all!

I think 440C is a better steel, but I'm not sure the average user would notice.

p.s. Is Edge 2000 now Edge 2X? I'm pretty sure the package this 119 came in said edge 2X, not 2000.
 
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