420HC - Thoughts?

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okbohn

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May 26, 2006
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The Schatt and Morgan thread got me thinking about this...

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I think of 420HC as a substandard steel. I know companies use it because it is cheap and pretty, but it does, actually work.

Buck uses it very successfully and Schatt and Morgan blades hold good edges. I wonder why it is that I am so biased against it?

Probably that there are much nicer steels out there. What do you guys think?

Are you biased against it?
Do you have good/bad experience with it?
Does it radically change your buying preferences?

Derrick
 
I like carbon blades on a production traditional. I like the way they age and sharpen easier. Yea, I am biased too.
I have a Buck 313 trapper in yellow and I do like that knife for sentimental reasons more than anything.

Regards,

Mark.
 
I do not have any 420HC, but I have AUS-6A which is similar. It is a very serviceable steel, used by Spyderco in their flagship Endura-Steel Handle model for years. It takes a good fine edge and at about 56 hardness holds it well. It is easy to sharpen, does not rust, and is shiny :) What more is needed in a pocket knife?
 
I think well-executed 420HC is probably the easiest stainless to live with, in all aspects. Easy to sharpen to hair-whittling edges, using most any common tools or methods (including even stones picked from the ground), and easy to maintain it as such, with simple stropping materials. This is a godsend to most 'average' users of knives made from it, as it'll never be too intimidating to deal with, no matter where one happens to be, or what tools they have available. To knife/steel nuts like some of us, maybe it's not all that 'impressive' as compared to more modern super steels; but it's not nearly as troublesome either, in the absence of the 'right' tools to sharpen it. When well-executed, it can't actually be 'inferior' if it's living up to it's designed intentions (and it usually does).

I used to think the same of 420HC, in that it seemed behind the curve of technology these days (also as perceived with 440A and even 440C at times). But I don't view it the same way anymore, and instead think there's an almost profound wisdom in some quality makers sticking with it, for the reasons stated above. Not that there's anything wrong in offering 'upgraded' steels as options; but I see no reason, or even any wisdom in a business sense, in completely eliminating decades-proven steel from a maker's line, in favor of the latest & greatest fad steel.

The 'pretty' aspect, as applied to 420HC (and usually negatively), is basically moot and irrelevant to other more important qualities like fine grain or ease of sharpening. Any decent steel can be made to look identical; i.e., 440C, D2, VG-10 and ATS-34 can easily be polished to look just as 'cheap and pretty' as 420HC. It's only the level of polish that makes it so, and nothing to do with the steel type.


David
 
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I stay away from 420HC. It's the absolute lowest end you can go in a using steel, unless you want to count mystery pot metal. Sure it's "serviceable," but I'm an enthusiast, I want more. I do hang out on a knife forum after all.

The most important part of a knife is the blade. A big part of that is the steel. I want a steel chosen for reasons other than ease of production or how pretty and shiny it gets.

- Christian
 
I have always thought of 420HC as having similar qualities to 1095, but with the added stainless properties. It sharpens easily and holds an edge for a decent amount of time.
 
I don't really have a problem with it although I would prefer carbon over it. My Schatt & Morgan that I mentioned in the same thread you are speaking of, is 420 and I think its fine and takes a great edge. I also don't mind Case's tru-sharp either, but I really love their CV. I have bought a lot of knives in the past in stainless and try not to anymore unless I just cant find something similar in carbon. I do wish that companies would make more offerings in carbon over stainless but I'm guessing that your average non knife knut person would probably not due to the maintenance factor.
 
Our opinions were formed that it is inadequate due to being around steel snobs on here and they rub off on us making us a steel snob and the cycle repeats itself. That is my theory in what happens.

I don't have 420HC knives in any form to my knowledge but I do have 440a and I have used the 440a in my rough riders quite extensively and I love it. It's not spectacular in any way but it's quite serviceable and will get the job with no fuss.

I now look at these steels with lower wear resistance in a lot better light than I did a few weeks ago, and I didn't hate them then. Main reason for the better view is I picked up a courser compound to strop with, I felt the need to sharpen a few knives as they have dulled down quite a bit but figured I use the new compound to see what happens and it brought it back to being pretty dang sharp in no time. This was with GEC's 01 and a SAK. Was quite nice being able to do that in less than a minute from start to finish. Times like this makes you wonder why we have such a super steel craze here, especially when all it took was a piece of paper wrapped around a stone and a $2 tube of craftsman #1 compound I used.
 
Not keen on 420hc,just set in my ways I guess.1095 to me is just right for my use.I like a couple of Northwoods but 420hc/d2 has put me off buying.
 
420HC that was heat treated by Paul Bos at Buck is an excellent steel that performs well. Since Paul left Buck, his protege Paul Farmer has continued the more than adequate job Paul did. It performs just like David said above and all of those Buck knives I have used in the field have gotten the job done.

Sure, there are better steels out there but I am perfectly satisfied with 420HC.
 
If it's Bucks 420HC I find it to take a pretty good edge and hold it for a reasonable amount of time but anybody else that offers a more premium version I would pick the better steel every time like 440C or I really like Canal Streets 14-4 CrMo if looking for a stainless steel but overall I'm a carbon steel guy and really enjoy a good 1095. I have not had a chance to use Queens 420HC but I imagine it works every bit as good as Bucks. Another reason I don't care about Buck knives using it is your typically talking about a knife in the $30 dollar price range. The average Queen being more in the $70 price range and up I'd expect a little better steel at least in my opinion. :)
 
I want to like it. It's hard for me to buy a ~$100 knife with that steel, even though I know:
A. It will serve every purpose I ever have for it.
B. It will sharpen so fast, so sharp, and more polished than is possible with other steels.
C. More accurate bevels: when something sharpens this easy, I'm much more likely to get a perfect angle, not round an edge, or scratch my blade. Every pass on a stone is a risk taken.

The irony here is that the steel can actually perform far BETTER than any other steel for me (sharper than I can get any S30V or D2) however I will buy the super steel for more money because?
 
I don't consider myself biased against 420HC and haven't had any bad experiences that would prevent me from getting a knife just because the steel is 420. I don't go out of my way to avoid it nor do I seek it out.
 
Depends on the knife and use case. But in general, I see nothing wrong with 420HC as long as the price is right.
 
- Are you biased against it?
No.

- Do you have good/bad experience with it?
I carry Case and Buck pocket knives made with 420HC. I can sharpen it adequately with my skills. It cuts the rather modest things I need to cut. It is sufficient for my daily needs.

- Does it radically change your buying preferences?
Not particularly. However, knowing that it is readily available on $30-$40 knives makes me less likely to see the value proposition in a $100 knife made using that same steel.
 
Everything that Obsessed with Edges said with the addition that I prefer Sanvick 12C27 to 420HC but honestly, I find them very close.

troutfisher13111 said:
I have always thought of 420HC as having similar qualities to 1095, but with the added stainless properties. It sharpens easily and holds an edge for a decent amount of time.
Click to expand...

This is roughly how I think about it.

Only teeniest caveat is that a lower Rc levels these stainlesses feel a bit more gummy than similarly hard carbon steel. But at 58Rc or so, I really have a hard time telling them apart other than the color.

Now... from a marketing standpoint, I think if I were in the position of KnivesShipFree and was in the business of specifying knife steels for knives I was going to sell under my own brand name, I think there *IS* a marketing distinction. The old adage, "An ounce of image is worth a pound of performance" comes to mind. That is, regardless how well 420HC can perform with the right heat treat, the question is can you specify it on a spec sheet and still sell the knife given it's reputation.

Buck handles this by making sure you, your family members and your neighbors know that it's BOS heat treated 420HC. They take great effort and well spent effort branding the Bos heat treat, including spiffy logos on the packaging.

Case handles it the old fashion way, publicly downplaying the identity by calling it Tru-Sharp.

12C27 is Swedish and everybody digs Sweden and Volvos and Ikea and blond hair and Boris Becker and happy-go-lucky Kurt Wallander so in that regard, maybe "Swedish 12C27" has better "spec appeal".

Just make sure they get whichever one you use north of 57Rc and please, no hollow grinds. The world has enough hollow grinds.
 
I have nothing against it, and as long as it works in the overall build of the knife I can go with it. !095, 420HC, Victorinox whatever steel, all good for me as it works in most pocket knife applications. In day to day life, I'm not hacking up the Amazon jungle nor stabbing cars, so whatever decent steel is in the knife is okay by me as long as I like the aesthetics, the fit and finish, the feel of it in hand. I do like a knife that I can sharpen yup in a just a few minutes anywhere I happen to be. Case True Sharp is nice stuff, and I love my old SAK, so maybe I'm just easy to please. As long as it cuts that twine, rope, UPS box, apple, baguette, cheese, and pepperoni, it's good for me.:thumbup:
 
pinnah said:
Now... from a marketing standpoint, I think if I were in the position of KnivesShipFree and was in the business of specifying knife steels for knives I was going to sell under my own brand name, I think there *IS* a marketing distinction. The old adage, "An ounce of image is worth a pound of performance" comes to mind. That is, regardless how well 420HC can perform with the right heat treat, the question is can you specify it on a spec sheet and still sell the knife given it's reputation.
Click to expand...

yeah, I wouldn't choose it for one of our knives (though there have been plenty made) just because I think it has a bit of a bad rep in knives.

You guys have pretty well echoed what I suspected. :) Thanks!
 
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