44 special over 357

yoz's friend said:
i see that ruger is coming out with a gp100 in 44 special. any reason this would be better than 357? specs show 357 to be better round for defense.
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The .44Spl is an excellent shooting round/calibre and an effective stopper.

That being said and as has already been evidenced:
Charlie_K said:
Oh now you've gone and done it. You've opened up a serious can of worms with that particular question. Best grab a helmet while you still can.
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Off to PracTac we go.
 
Better? That's in the opinion of the shooter, of course, but not for me. I suspect this gun will not sell in large numbers because ammo is hard to find unless you live near a sporting goods superstore like Cabela's or Bass Pro Shops and that most shooters are not familiar with the round and that they have settled on the more traditional rounds already.

The GP100 in .357mag really is the epitome of the combat revolver. Many shooters who carry for self defense and/or compete in revolver classes share this opinion, so it's not just an armchair statement. Cut for moon clips, it's an even more outstanding gun.

Unless you have shot and fallen in love with the .44spl or are a collector with the extra cash, I would ignore it.

Now the Ruger Redhawk in .45acp/.45Colt? That's a terrific idea! Get one of those!

Zieg
 
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Zemapeli said:
.357 has more penetration than the .44mag,,

The .357 was given to police forces to have penetration and stopping power (enough to go through a car door or light armor and still kill). This was c.1900's in the era of bonny/clyde and prohibition days.

The .44 mag is a vastly underpowered round, it is just fat and big.
Wow!

The .44 is a big slow moving bullet, comparable to the .45 (non-ACP, which is a larger and more powerful "law" round)


(What I mean by this is both rounds are large calibers for the small arms genre of gun. Both the .44 and the .45 are slow moving (800-1000fps without being hand loaded beyond loading specs or +P/Special)

The .44 is more powerful than the .45 just based on casing length and width (design)
Wow!

One can load the .45 Colt to more pressure than the .44 Spl and also than the .44 Mag.

The physics case the powder to burn slower, and most generally a revolver will have a longer barrel, causing the round to generate more velocity in the barrel.

Most .45 barrels are only two to three inches in length, most .44 barrels are at least 4 inches,
Wow!

giving the .44 more velocity.
I know that may not make much sense by saying it,, but compare a .22 caliber LR round leaving a ruger to a .22 caliber LR round leaving a

deranger

You said it

Assume you mean 'Derringer' or 'Deringer' - historically both means of spelling are used

with a two inch barrel. Same concept. There will be muzzle flash and a loud bang, but the velocity will me substantially lower coming out of the deranger than the ruger. So without any argument, the .44 rimfire is SUBSTANCIALLY more powerful and has much more stopping power.

The .45 ACP is carried by many law enforcement personnel in north America in SIG226's; which is one of the most carried guns by law enforcement along with the Glock, the SIG P228 (calibers vary), The M9 or Beretta 92f or my favorite the Beretta 92R (9mm,22, or .40 cal), and the 1911. The Sig 226 is another law enforcement gun that is heavily carried. I should really say that the SIG 226 is a "service" gun and not just law enforcement. The SIG 226 was the first choice for the Navy Seals in the 70's and onwards or there abouts. (I know in 1989 the SIG P228 saw service in the Navy Seals as well) The gun has tritium night sights-H3 helium isotope that is radioactive. The SIG 226's are known to have frame failures after 5000+ rounds,

Wow!

Someone has neglected to tell this to my SIG226

this is due to being both ACP (which has a higher power) and also the fact that the slide and action is so damn heavy without much lower frame to contact.

Wow!

...I dont even know what to say to this....

My personal favorite are the older navy seals 226 frames without the accessory rail on the bottom and tritium sights.

I choose .357,,,, it is the best survival and SD gun with speedloaders or moonclips.
Reliablility is a definite strong point.
Also, you run a very low chance of "limp handing the firearm", everyone from children to women can shoot these guns well with little to no instruction or training.


Wow!

You have GOT to be kidding!


Cleaning is easy as well.
Maintenance is relatively simple, EVEN the internals.
You could realistically purchase extra springs and parts and cnc or dremel compartments in the rubber or non rubber grips of a revolver; this would make the gun so reliable that you would not have to second guess it.
In my mind that is what really makes the GUN a survival gun.
Any kind of 1911 or Sig or Glock would not have a place for extra parts, and any broken springs or parts would render the firearm inoperable and useless. They are also much harder to service without specialty gun tools. You could (in a pinch) fashion your own gun spring if you really needed too with a 1911 or .357 or .44.


One more reason I hate .44 mag is that it is rare to find even in shooting sports stores, and it is expensive and underpowered.
Wow!

Again, mind blowing....

It has virtually no penetration through any sort of armor.


Definitely the .357 for my personal choice for a survival/SD/EDC/or other. Best option. If you want more power, go with a S&W 500 mag.
Wow!

I ....I....whaaaaaaa...!

You can also shoot less expensive .38 +P out of a .357, giving you yet another option when ammo becomes scarce.


Think about these facts and thoughts,,,
Might just save your butt.
All the best,,
Zemapeli.:thumbup:
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Facts...?

Wow.
 
Man i guess dirty harry meant to say the 44mag most underpowered handgun in the world.
 
A Keith 255 cast bullet @ 950 fps will take care of most any game up to deer at short ranges. A person needs to handload to get the best from the .44 Special.
 
First point for consideration as an answer to the original post:

rJS6n30.jpg


Left to right: .38 special + P 158 grain hardcast keith lead swc; .357 180 grain hardcast lead flat nose; .44 special 255 grain hardcast keith lead swc

.44 special has a notable size advantage. In most cases, however, .357 will achieve greater velocity.

All of the above rounds are penetrating cartridges designed to go through media and come out the other side. They all blow through gel, and they are all traveling over 1000 ft/s. The .44 makes a much bigger hole.

Let's compare energy of the cartridges:

.38 special + p 158 keith at 1050 ft/s: 386

.357 180 lfn at 1300 ft/s: 675

.44 special 255 keith at 1100 ft/s: 566

At the hotter end of the spectrum, .357 retains an energy and momentum advantage, whereas .44 special will almost always be larger and will come close to .357 energy while being much quieter.

However, at the velocity you are likely to see in a snub, the numbers are pretty close together.

140 grain Barnes XPB at 1100 ft/s: 376

200 grain Barnes TAC-XP at 850 ft/s: 320

And it flips when you try other variations:

.38 special +p 158 keith at 1050 ft/s: 386

.44 special 200 grain hardcast wadcutter at 950 ft/s: 400

There are a range of 200 grain .44 special cartridges worth considering, shown here next to the 255 keith

44tops_zps86da16f7.jpg


Previously, the Charter Arms Bulldog and the S&W 296 were seen as EDC-worthy options for the caliber. The 296 is shown below, an airweight snub with 5 shot capacity

296expose_zps5ee8ce38.jpg


However, these are downright unpleasant to shoot, and the short barrels limit the slower velocity of the caliber even further.

The S&W 696 solved the weight problem. All steel, external hammer. If this were still in production, it would be a solid competitor to the GP100 version that we are discussing. However, it is quite rare.

If the GP100 can handle the heavier .44 special cartridges, then you might expect energy over 500 for a 255 keith round at around 950 ft/s. This is really quite compelling given the subsonic qualities and comparably low pressure of the round. With moderate loads in both calibers, you are in the 350 to 400 range for energy, and the .44 special weight and size makes you look twice.

Additionally, the novelty of the item is a draw. People have wanted a .44 special GP100 for quite awhile. That is reason enough to make it and even perhaps to own it.

However, the GP100 is pretty darn heavy. Instead of losing 1 bullet by switching to a .44 variant, I would probably just put the Blackhawk on my belt and retain 6 shot capacity

gtaW965.jpg
 
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Maybe I'm confused but can't you shoot 44 spec out of most 44 magnum guns? Sort of a 38 Spcl out of a 357 as long as it's a revolver?
 
dodgeem33 said:
Maybe I'm confused but can't you shoot 44 spec out of most 44 magnum guns? Sort of a 38 Spcl out of a 357 as long as it's a revolver?
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This is correct. However, a 4.2" GP100 weighs 5 ounces less unloaded (40 ounces total) than a Super Redhawk Alaskan with a 2.5" barrel (45 ounces) chambered in .44 magnum. A 3" Gp100 should come in nearly 10 ounces lighter, and will be comparable in weight to the S&W 696. The 696 is arguably a more elegant firearm, however it will be about double the price of the new GP100 and there aren't many replacement parts, so the active warranty of a GP100 .44 special snub is appealing.
 
I plan on purchasing a GP-100 44 special. It's a fun cartridge and can be loaded in many configurations. Plus it will give me an excuse to buy another revolver. :D
 
Bugs57 said:
I plan on purchasing a GP-100 44 special. It's a fun cartridge and can be loaded in many configurations. Plus it will give me an excuse to buy another revolver. :D
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That's the spirit! Brush up on your Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton and hit the bench. Many configurations indeed.

Easy on the gun, easy on the wrists, with low pressures the brass will have a superb lifespan.

Come back here and post a review when your grin subsides a bit.
 
There's just something fun about a big, slow, bullet. Personally I would rather have a 5-shot GP-100 in .45 Colt/ACP but I won't turn my nose up at a .44 special.

I plan on grabbing the GP and a S&W 69 with the 2.75" barrel at some point. The 69 is chambered for the .44 magnum but that doesn't sound particularly pleasant to me. I see myself shooting .44 special from it.
 
Cougar Allen said:
:eek: That's an amazing collection of misinformation. I hardly know where to begin.... Too late at night here, anyway.
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I think my thoughts just locked up on:
"The .44 mag is a vastly underpowered round, it is just fat and big. The .44 is a big slow moving bullet, comparable to the .45 (non-ACP, which is a larger and more powerful "law" round)"

My thoughts were just paralyzed.....I don't even know what to make of this mess.
 
JB in SC , Cor-Bon has two nice loadings for the 44 spl ,One is a JHP and one an all copper bullet. Both good rounds , effective with those weights and velocities.

BTW my original research of 357 vs 44mag was as intensive as I could make and the result was that the 44mag was about twice as effective on deer ! In either case choice of bullets is a big part of the performance !! My deer hunting rifle or handgun is with all copper Barnes type.
 
farmboy said:
I think my thoughts just locked up on:
"The .44 mag is a vastly underpowered round, it is just fat and big. The .44 is a big slow moving bullet, comparable to the .45 (non-ACP, which is a larger and more powerful "law" round)"

My thoughts were just paralyzed.....I don't even know what to make of this mess.
Click to expand...

Same here, but I'm working through it. I'll get him addressed soon enough.
 
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