440 B, 440C, Nitro-V

S

Steve Beckwith

Joined
May 29, 2004
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387
I have made several chef's knives using AEB-L. The price is right but it is prone to warping while grinding and all the grinding has to be done post heat treat. Also, one of the finished blades picked up a small spot of rust. So I am looking at other steels. Price is always a consideration so I was looking at 440B, 440C, and Nitro-V. I'd also like to be able to do as much grinding pre heat treat as possible without being concerned with warping during heat treat. The other possibility is that I am just being frugal and I should just bite the bullet and go for some higher priced, better steel. I am looking for approx. .070 and .090. Feedback will be greatly appreciated.
 
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Steve Beckwith said:
I have made several chef's knives using AEB-L. The price is right but it is prone to warping while grinding and all the grinding has to be done post heat treat. Also, one of the finished blades picked up a small spot of rust. So I am looking at other steels. Price is always a consideration so I was looking at 440B, 440C, and Nitro-V. I'd also like to be able to do as much grinding pre heat treat as possible without being concerned with warping during heat treat. The other possibility is that I am just being frugal and I should just bite the bullet and go for some higher priced, better steel. I am looking for approx. .070 and .090. Feedback will be greatly appreciated.
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Interesting. I use pretty much exclusively AEB-L for my stainless blades, and have never gotten any warping during grinding. Did you mean to say that you got the warping during heat treat? I heat treat mine as blanks, then do all the grinding post HT though, so maybe that's where the difference is.

I've used 440C also and anecdotally it finished really well and seems to have a higher resistance to corrosion than AEB-L. But it seems like I can never get it quite as hair popping sharp, and the edge retention hasn't been as good for me either.

Just my 2 cents.
 
One other thought I just had regarding your spot of rust, is what sort of finish you're taking your blades to. I have noticed that mine are more likely to get a spot of rust if I leave it at a coarser belt finish than if I do a hand finished blade to a higher grit.
 
Did any of your belts get used for grinding carbon steel, use steel wool or somehow scratch it with carbon steel? We run into contaminated stainless all the time in the welding trade. AEB-L done right usually doesn't rust easily but I have a hunter that is covered with rust spots after one night camping. I think I used a old Scotch Brite on it. I have never had rust on anything in the kitchen. I have been super happy with S35VN. It's not that expensive if you get it from Pop's although they don't have anything really thin. I get price but how much are you saving? If you are making it for yourself you have a nicer knife for $10 more. I have also never had it warp and was even able to grind it thin before heat treatment and it was perfectly straight.
 
Steve Beckwith said:
I have made several chef's knives using AEB-L. The price is right but it is prone to warping while grinding and all the grinding has to be done post heat treat. Also, one of the finished blades picked up a small spot of rust. So I am looking at other steels. Price is always a consideration so I was looking at 440B, 440C, and Nitro-V. I'd also like to be able to do as much grinding pre heat treat as possible without being concerned with warping during heat treat. The other possibility is that I am just being frugal and I should just bite the bullet and go for some higher priced, better steel. I am looking for approx. .070 and .090. Feedback will be greatly appreciated.
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Maybe you should look in powder version of 440 C ?
www.alphaknifesupply.com

440C Stainless Steel • Alpha Knife Supply - AKS™

440C Stainless Steel For Sale • Largest variety of thickness, lengths and widths of 440C Billets and 440C Bar Stock • Fast Shipping & Excellent Prices!
www.alphaknifesupply.com
 
I know 440C outcut AEB-L in CATRA test by a good margin but from my experience AEB-L is a much better steel for knife blade... it will hold better edge, sharpen much easier and took far superiors edge. All you need is to harden it to over 61HRC.
 
The rust spot I had is on a slipjoint I made. Probably not 3/32" round. I may very well have used a belt that had ground carbon steel, I never thought of that. I hand sanded the blade to 400. As for warping while grinding, I really haven't found AEB-L warping to be a major problem but I have had some, fortunately I was able to correct it. I have used it primarily due to the availability of thinner stock that I prefer. You are correct that cost isn't something I'll be concerned with 5 years from now.
 
Michael Black said:
Interesting. I use pretty much exclusively AEB-L for my stainless blades, and have never gotten any warping during grinding. Did you mean to say that you got the warping during heat treat? I heat treat mine as blanks, then do all the grinding post HT though, so maybe that's where the difference is.

I've used 440C also and anecdotally it finished really well and seems to have a higher resistance to corrosion than AEB-L. But it seems like I can never get it quite as hair popping sharp, and the edge retention hasn't been as good for me either.

Just my 2 cents.
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Have you ground any 9.5” kitchen knives that are 2 mm thick in AEBL?

they warp during Grinding....

if you have indeed done long thin kitchen knives and they don’t warp during Grinding , please be kind enough to share your process
 
HSC /// said:
Have you ground any 9.5” kitchen knives that are 2 mm thick in AEBL?

they warp during Grinding....

if you have indeed done long thin kitchen knives and they don’t warp during Grinding , please be kind enough to share your process
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I just did three 1.6mm nakiri and they all warped during grinding. I'd sure like to know how to avoid that... And if anybody has any ideas how to fix the warp without introducing peening marks, I'd be really grateful...
 
I have made some 10" blades but I have used .110 (2.8mm) for those. I have made several 7" and 8" blades using .062 (1.6mm). The warping post heat treat when grinding may very well be my grinding technique. I grind one side, dunk and grind the other side. And repeat. When I had a problem I was able to essentially warp it back. I guess I am really looking for a steel that I can pretty much finish grind pre heat treat. I have always heard that AEB-L is prone to warpage in heat treat while some steels (D2 for example) can be finish ground prior to heat treat. Maybe I'm just chasing unicorns...
 
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HSC /// said:
Have you ground any 9.5” kitchen knives that are 2 mm thick in AEBL?

they warp during Grinding....

if you have indeed done long thin kitchen knives and they don’t warp during Grinding , please be kind enough to share your process
Click to expand...
I mean, this sounds kinda personal, TBH. But I do almost exclusively 9" chef knives in AEB-L, although I'm by no means an expert. Mine are almost all .100" thick material, but I haven't had a problem with any warpage yet. I freehand grind post-HT flipping sides every couple passes, and dunking in water every pass. Maybe I've just been lucky so far, but since I haven't had any problems myself I was surprised to hear of other people having this problem.
 
Michael Black said:
I mean, this sounds kinda personal, TBH. But I do almost exclusively 9" chef knives in AEB-L, although I'm by no means an expert. Mine are almost all .100" thick material, but I haven't had a problem with any warpage yet. I freehand grind post-HT flipping sides every couple passes, and dunking in water every pass. Maybe I've just been lucky so far, but since I haven't had any problems myself I was surprised to hear of other people having this problem.
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Well I’m personally asking you, yes.
Anything beyond that is speculation

I don’t know what kind of knives you make and you might just be making 3 inch hunters. I did my quick research by clicking on your Instagram link which isn’t linked correctly... and then I searched on Instagram to see what kind of knives you make and I came up with nothing so I don’t know what kind of knives you make.

Now I know.
 
So let me change the course of this conversation if I may. 440C and AEB-L have been discussed, what about 440 B and Nitro-V? Anyone use either? Like it? I was asking about these steels mainly because of the thicknesses that are available. I'm not opposed to spending more for some top notch stainless but everything else that I see is too thick for my purposes.
 
While Aeb-l is tough it is not the highest in corrosion résistance.

There is nothing wrong with 440c Done with the correct heat treatment and LN Cryo quench
 
Nitro V will have same issues as AEBL. 440B I wouldn’t use on a knife that I’d sell. If you want grind to essentially finished dimensions preheat treat then I’d suggest S35VN.
 
Daniel Carraher said:
Nitro V will have same issues as AEBL. 440B I wouldn’t use on a knife that I’d sell. If you want grind to essentially finished dimensions preheat treat then I’d suggest S35VN.
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Ok, thanks. NJSB has CPM S35VN in .062/.070. That is one of the thicknesses I am interested. They are out of stock on their .100
 
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