440B vs 440C

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Ken H>

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Dec 31, 2011
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I see AlphaKnifeSupply is now carrying 440B knife steel. Since there is almost no difference in cost between 440C vs 440B, is there any real reason to choose 440B over 440C? I realize Randall Knives use 440B, but I always figured it was due to cheaper cost. BUT - 440B is almost twice as expensive than AEB-L.

In fact, is there any reason to choose either of the 440 series knife steels over AEB-L?
 
AKS’ 440B & 440C will be more wear resistant but not as tough as AEB-L. I’ve never messed with 440B. 440C is a very good steel for knives that often gets a bad rap.

There was a time when if you talked about stainless in a custom knife it meant 440C, this was before the days of 154cm. HRC has crept up over the years and 440C does really good if the hardness is up there. 440C is = or better than 154cm at the same hardness for wear resistance.

A little testing would help but I suspect that the 440B will make an excelent knife.

AEB-L is a well balanced steel and a very good value cost wise. Choose 440 b or c if you want more wear resistance, choose aeb-l if you want more toughness.

Hoss
 
I'm a idiot my wife will vouch for that! I'm also a newbie in the eyes of the vast experience of the knowledgeable folks that post here. I still can't wrap my mind around the difference of wear resistance and toughness. Explain it to me like I'm a 6 year old!

I've made a bunch of knives out of 440C that I and my friends rave about. I just hate "surface grinding" the mill finish off. Yes I know that I could PAY to have it surface ground but there's the price thing. I love AEB-L from the mill finish is smooth as a baby butt. But I have no real world experience with this steel for knives yet. But I'm about ready to try it find out as the last batch I've made are AEB-L.
 
LCoop said:
I'm a idiot my wife will vouch for that! I'm also a newbie in the eyes of the vast experience of the knowledgeable folks that post here. I still can't wrap my mind around the difference of wear resistance and toughness. Explain it to me like I'm a 6 year old!

I've made a bunch of knives out of 440C that I and my friends rave about. I just hate "surface grinding" the mill finish off. Yes I know that I could PAY to have it surface ground but there's the price thing. I love AEB-L from the mill finish is smooth as a baby butt. But I have no real world experience with this steel for knives yet. But I'm about ready to try it find out as the last batch I've made are AEB-L.
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Wear resistance = edge holding

Toughness = how much force is needed to break it.

Hoss
 
Hoss, thanks a bunch for your comments. They pretty much reflect what I've thought. I've used 440C a couple of times and it works just fine, but I do like the tiny carbides in AEB-L. I'm told that's what makes it easier to sharpen because you're not trying to cut those hard carbides.

I didn't know anything about 440B, just seems when I see it was always on lower end knives..... but what do I know? That's why I'm here, learning {g}
 
I use 440c for some of my bigger Culinary & Bowie style field knives. Have since 1997, Works great! For most everything else in my line of knives I use AEB-L and it’s sister Nitro, Those fine carbides give a super sharp edge that cuts with a refined edge at 60-62 for my Culinary Knives! depending on the chore of each my knives ————————————I buy both from Aldo, NJSB,!He had a consistently of Steels that takes the headache out for me, from the EBay deals and even knife supply houses that may, or may not know what they are selling?... ..............-I have not personal used 440B, Remember that proper Heat treatment for a Steel is really more important that what the Cutlery Steel is...Give it a try and please let us know??
 
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Ken H> said:
Hoss, thanks a bunch for your comments. They pretty much reflect what I've thought. I've used 440C a couple of times and it works just fine, but I do like the tiny carbides in AEB-L. I'm told that's what makes it easier to sharpen because you're not trying to cut those hard carbides.

I didn't know anything about 440B, just seems when I see it was always on lower end knives..... but what do I know? That's why I'm here, learning {g}
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I think most if it is coming out of Europe. Carpenter makes some but may not be available to us. Maybe Larrin can run the numbers and give some projections. If someone wants to send me a bar, I’ll be glad to do some heat treat experiments on it. We can see what the hardness numbers look like and the toughness numbers also.

Hoss
 
DevinT said:
I think most if it is coming out of Europe. Carpenter makes some but may not be available to us. Maybe Larrin can run the numbers and give some projections. If someone wants to send me a bar, I’ll be glad to do some heat treat experiments on it. We can see what the hardness numbers look like and the toughness numbers also.

Hoss
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I’ve got a bunch that Chuck sent me. I’ll send you a stick to play with if you like.
 
Willie71 said:
I’ve got a bunch that Chuck sent me. I’ll send you a stick to play with if you like.
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great!
i've sharpened a boat load of that "Americana brand" of Culinary Knives.. I've heard its 440B but don't know for sure?

The steel seems to have a decent hardness the way it grinds when sharpening and re-profiling from people screwing them up...

They mostly Suck because of their designs. The small Hollow and the bottom gets way to thick after a few sharpening s..

Many of them are run through a dish washer too & the Detergent Frosts the edge and makes the steel brittle there....

Looking forward to Devin checking the HT out! Thanks for sending him a Billet!
 
Ken H> said:
I didn't know anything about 440B, just seems when I see it was always on lower end knives.....
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You may be mistaking 440B for 440A or 440. I've never seen a low end knife with 440B, but I've seen many junk knives with 440A and 440.

Willie71 said:
I’ve got a bunch that Chuck sent me. I’ll send you a stick to play with if you like.
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Warren, I'll send Devin some 440B.

Chuck
 
I'm agree with Chuck, I recently purchased two 1.4112 ESU bars (is 440B and ESU is electro slag remelt quality). This steel was used extensively for example by Dietmar Kressler.... who notoriously does not make "cheap" knives. I haven't tried this steel yet, so I can't compare it with CPM154 or RWL34.

Devin, I'm very interested in your 440B tests, I hope you will tell us something soon. I don't think I can work with this steel in the short term.
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
You may be mistaking 440B for 440A or 440. I've never seen a low end knife with 440B, but I've seen many junk knives with 440A and 440.

Warren, I'll send Devin some 440B.

Chuck
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Chuck, thanks for chiming in - If you say so I'm sure I've never seen 440B on a lower end knife. Most likely I was confusing "B" and the "A" as you say. I guess I'm just prejudice toward AEB-L with those tiny carbides and the cost point. Glad I started this thread to get more insight to 440B. I KNOW my limitations and try to keep my mouth shut and listen and learn from folks on this site. Thanks all.

Ken H>
 
Now I am going on second and third hand info here, but the impression that I have always had was that 440B was tougher than 440C at the expense of some abrasion resistance. I am not sure how hard (or not so hard) they run their blades now, but I seem to recall that Randall tended to run their 440B blades 2-3 points harder than there old O1 blades in the past, at least according to them.
 
jdm61 said:
Now I am going on second and third hand info here, but the impression that I have always had was that 440B was tougher than 440C at the expense of some abrasion resistance. I am not sure how hard (or not so hard) they run their blades now, but I seem to recall that Randall tended to run their 440B blades 2-3 points harder than there old O1 blades in the past, at least according to them.
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Based on the chemistry, that sounds about right.

https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/shop/440b-stainless-steel

Is basically 440c with lower carbon, 0.85-0.90%, rather than 1.05-1.12%. The bohler version has a bit of vanadium in it too, 0.10%.
 
440B would make a great knife steel if heat treated to something like 60-61 rc with use of cryo. It would be very corrosion resistant. Otherwise I would pick AEB-L. The AEB-L and NitroV I am getting comes straighter now and less warping issues during heat treat unlike before. So now these steels are very ideal to use.
 
Ken H> said:
Glad I started this thread to get more insight to 440B. I KNOW my limitations and try to keep my mouth shut and listen and learn from folks on this site. Thanks all.
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I think your comments were good. I suspect other people had similar questions.

Chuck
 
Is AUS-8 the Japanese steel that most closely resembles 440B?
 
AKS’ 440B has more carbon and more chrome. Different animal. Steels are most similar that have the same amount and type of carbides, hardness and stain resistance. I think the AUS-8 will be different.

Hoss
 
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