440C steel--- i think its about time

S

ShaiHulud

Joined
Jul 21, 2022
Messages
1,780
It's about time we finally can the steel, am I right?
People say it's all in the heat treatment. However
At the additional price point, you are better off buying serviceable 154CM. Thoughts?
 
Larrin said:
Crucible lists 154CM as having 20% better edge retention than 440C, but no information on hardness is given: http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/DataSheets2010/dsS30Vv1 2010.pdf

154CM is typically heat treated to a higher hardness than 440C since 440C seems top top out around 59 Rc before it gets brittle. So perhaps it could be assumed that the 440C used in Crucible's test is at a lower hardness, the the exact numbers are unavailable.

However when Bohler did CATRA testing they got nearly equivalent numbers for 440C and 154CM even though the 154CM was 2 Rc higher: http://www.bucorp.com/media/CATRA_Test2.pdf

Also Carpenter reports that their PM BG42 is lower in wear resistance at an equivalent hardness to 440C: https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/Pictures/Info/Steel/CTSB75P-DS.pdf

Therefore I would conclude that 440C may actually have superior wear resistance to 154CM but when 154CM is heat treated to higher hardness they are more or less equivalent.
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I still use and enjoy 440C, it is a perfectly serviceable steel for general knife use.

I had a gig drywalling and installing insulation a few years back and used a 440C knife to cut both. It surprised me on how well the knife worked, and how easy it was to touch back up.

And it didn't rust.

Sometimes us knife nuts overthink alloys. A good heat treated 440C blade with appropriate geometry for the task can certainly still get a lot of work done.

I also have an old Buck 119 that has done a wonderful job over the years butchering wild game.
 
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I carried this knife for a few years, used it a lot at work, even pried open packing crates with it, never once did I say to myself "I wish it were made of a different steel".

I couldn't care less what steel a knife is made of as long as it does what I need it to do. I do prefer stainless though.

I remember back when 440C was considered a "super steel".

Entrek Cobra. 440C.

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I found 440C in my Bucks several decades back to be a real pain to sharpen -- albeit all I had then was carborundum hones. I wore out a nice 112 Ranger by over sharpening. The current 154CM blades I have (Emerson, Grippie) are too thick and don't slice well, or hold an edge particularly well so that may be why I don't care for that steel, either.
 
A lot of people that have been around knives for a long time know the "I don't like 440C/it's junk/it's inferior/outdated" statements are actually how folks who don't really know much about knives and steel identify themselves to the rest of us. In other words, "here's your sign."😎😎

Sam
 
Last year, $10 knives in the local stores had 420 or "surgical stainless steel". This year, they cost $12 but have 440 steel. I don't know which version of 440, but it definitely has better edge retention than last year's knives. I think it's nice to be able to get a decent knife for $12. Not that I'm going to give up Benchmades and Spydercos. Although I have given up Benchmades with 154CM.
 
BlindMouse2of3 said:
I think you are onto something. I will sponsor a buyback and offer a nickel a pound for knives in those steels. I will properly dispose of these outdated useless knives.
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I think you misunderstood what he meant.

To OP, the difference between them is not great. They are side grade rather than straight upgrade. Same with VG10, N690 and Aus10, some is a little more corrosive resistance, some is a little more wear resistance, some is a little more tough. At the "right hardness" of the 154cm, it is reported that its corrosive resistance is reduced compare to 440C's significantly higher chromium content.
 
I understand perfectly well, I just figured If we are tossing one good steel and by the same logic should toss all other non 2022 super steels I would offer a safe place for them.

Like all things in life new things come along, it doesn't mean the old things stop working. I shoot a .30-06 and to alot of people it's the same as 440c... Dead. Is it old? Yes it is. Does it work just fine for what it is? Yes it does. There are no secrets left to it. So a company can produce it with zero R&D cost. Whatever you would need to know about the steel can be found on YouTube. That doesn't make it bad

Edit to add: it occurs to me my opinion is probably null and void as I'm sitting here playing sudoku on paper with a pencil....
 
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Marketing…there is a sucker born every minute. Knives in all types of steel alloys have been with us for thousands of years, and many of those knives survive and remain functional today. Why would anyone knock on a proven product simply because it fails to conform with the current hype?

When was the last time that you saw a knife maker offering a “blind taste test”…it will never happen because most users wouldn’t be able to tell the difference and the few that can would be performing outlier tasks.

n2s
 
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