.45 LC vs. .44 Mag

longbeachguy

longbeachguy

Joined
Oct 11, 2005
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I'm not a gun guy so much so forgive what I'm sure is a very basic question.

I have revolvers in both .45 LC and .44 mag. The .45 cartridges are 250 grain and the .44 mag are 240 grain. My understanding is that the .44 mag is the more powerful cartridge, and it feels more powerful when I shoot. However when compared side to side these cartridges look almost identical, and the powder charge seems very similar.

My question: is the 44 mag significantly more powerful than the .45 LC? And if so why?

Thanks so much,

Jim
 
Well Clint Eastwood would most likely shoot the .44 mag while John Wayne would most likely use the .45 LC; got shot with either and doesn't much matter you will be hurtin'. :D
 
The big difference here is the Velocity of the rounds involved

seems to me like the average 230grain .45LC round only develops about 950 FPS out of a 7.5in test barrel

where the average 240grain .44mag develops upwards of 1500 fps out of the same barrel length.

The equation for Kinetic energy is:

KE=1/2M*V^2

Im not going to run the math but what the equation shows is when it comes down to raw Muzzle Energy speed is the key compared to the mass.

I hope that made enough sense.
 
Thanks you guys, particularly ZH for that THR link.

You more or less confirmed what I thought, which is that the the 44 mag is more powerful, but stopping power is comparable.

I love the .45 LC round -- forgiving yet powerful. It remains my favorite. I also have revolvers in .38 Spl and .357 mag. I think .357 is runner up.

Thanks again,

Jim
 
A bit of history may help. The original 45 Colt round was a black powder cartridge. It was a folded balloon head cartridge for many years as this was the easiest way to form brass back then. It is also the weakest form of brass made and today is found only in rimfire ammunition. See pics below. Second the guns made for this cartridge were originally designed for blackpowder loads and were not made to handle the pressures of modern rounds. Even today the Colt SA design is still somewhat weak when compared to Rugers, S&Ws, TCs, etc. However despite the fact stronger guns are available the ammunition manufacturers load to keep pressures safe for the weaker guns. Some more powerful ammo is available but will be marked "Not for use in Colt SAs".

Today 45 Colt Brass is made in the same manner as 44 Magnum brass and is just as strong. Both custom ammo as well as reloads can meet the same specs as the 44 Magnum, for example a 240gr at 1500 fps. So yes, both can be equal in power but caution must be used to never put one of the magnum level rounds into one of the Colt (or Colt clones) Single Actions.

As a side note this level of performance is approachable even in a semi-auto, my 45 Super loads launch a 230 at 1100fps and my 460 Rowland send out a 230 at 1350fps.

brass.jpg
 
my neighbor hunts with a hamilton bowen modd'ed ruger bisley with a SS cylinder & ejector rod housing, integral compensator, in .45 LC & FWIW it has the bst trigger opf any pistol i have ever used bar none, has ~ 5" bbl.

he handloads and i dont remember the velocity #'s but he claims (and i believe him) his handloads approach 44 mag levels, i know i fired the thing with std .45LC 250gr and then one of his handloads and it was a BIG differnce lol.

he gets a buck with it every yr too.
 
Knife_Geek said:
The big difference here is the Velocity of the rounds involved

seems to me like the average 230grain .45LC round only develops about 950 FPS out of a 7.5in test barrel

where the average 240grain .44mag develops upwards of 1500 fps out of the same barrel length.

The equation for Kinetic energy is:

KE=1/2M*V^2

Im not going to run the math but what the equation shows is when it comes down to raw Muzzle Energy speed is the key compared to the mass.

I hope that made enough sense.
Click to expand...

This is certainly correct in terms of kinetic energy contained by the projectile. Stopping power, however, comes from kinetic energy (and momentum) delivered to the target. That is a different and much more complex matter -- one still debated to this day.

But I promised my spouse ... and several BF members ... that I would keep my itchy fingers away from the math-related keys. So we won't go there. :D
 
One of the easiest formulas to determine the amount of energy delivered to the target in the very simple Taylor Knockout Formula. Bullet weight (gr) times Bullet velocity (fps) times Bullet diameter (inches) divided by 7000. So for the 44 it would be:

240X1450X.429 divided by 7000 = 21.3 Taylor KO Factor

In the case of the 45 Colt load listed in the beginning it would be:

250X950X.457 divided by 7000 = 15.5 Taylor KO Factor

By comparison the modern 45/70 has a TKO Factor of 55. The major advantage of this formula is that it does take bullet diameter into consideration. Bullet diameter does play a part in stopping power, a short fat bullet does more damage to tissue than a long thin one does in most cases.
 
SAAMI allows factory .44 Mag. loads to operate at higher chamber pressures than .45 Colt loads. Higher pressures over a proper pressure curve create higher projectile velocities. Handloads can even things out in guns (Ruger, T/C, a few others) that will stand the pressures, but factories shy away from the likelyhood that "overloads" will find their way into a chambers not designed to handle them safely. Without looking it up I'll estimate the .44 Mag. goes about 35,000 CUP and the .45 Colt is held under 20,000 CUP in factory loads..

That being said, a .45 Colt handload from a long barreled T/C can easily surpass the power of a factory .44 Mag. load from a short revolver barrel. The .44 Mag. is the "more powerful" by design. The powder charge volume may look similar but density and burning rate makes a huge difference among different powders and their energy content. :) Regards, ss.
 
Actually you are overly optimistic...lol. SAAMI for standard 45 Colt is 14,000 in Colt and Colt clones but 25,000 in the Blackhawks, and higher still in N-Frames. The biggest problem is modified balloon head cases are still being used by some manufacturers. These cases are much weaker than the cases used for 44 Magnums. You can get solid head cases for the 45 Colt but you lose powder capacity, when loading hot loads you must be sure what case you are loading to prevent over-pressure situations.

So in other words if you want 44 Magnum ballistics buy a 44 Magnum, don't try to soup up the 45 Colt. Yes it is possible but why?
 
Why do people shoot the 40 S&W when they could shoot the 10mm?

It boggles the mind! :D
 
Robert H said:
Why do people shoot the 40 S&W when they could shoot the 10mm?

It boggles the mind! :D
Click to expand...
For me it was cost, availability, information, and not wanting yet another caliber.

10mm is so rare and costs quit a bit more.

.40 SW has become near ubiquitous. Only well stocked stores have 10mm in more than one flavor. Yes, yes I know about the internet. :D

I didn't know how much different they were when I got my first 40.

I now have .45, 40, .357, .357 Sig, 9mm, .38, .380, .22
When will the madness end? :eek:
 
I can't stop. I've recently gone into a .38 super, 5.7, and .454 casull, luckily it also shoots 45LC, which after the last 6 rounds, will be all I ever shoot out of it.
 
Robert H said:
I can't stop. I've recently gone into a .38 super, 5.7, and .454 casull, luckily it also shoots 45LC, which after the last 6 rounds, will be all I ever shoot out of it.
Click to expand...
When the .454 was first released, my friend's dad bought one. We kids took it and a box of shells out and wasted them (without permission). :eek: Who knew they were so expensive. :o

For those who don't know; gas was well below a dollar a gallon and each box was well above $60-70 (which doesn't sound too bad right now was a heck of a lot to a kid back then...minimum wage was $3.25).
 
Absintheur said:
One of the easiest formulas to determine the amount of energy delivered to the target in the very simple Taylor Knockout Formula. Bullet weight (gr) times Bullet velocity (fps) times Bullet diameter (inches) divided by 7000. So for the 44 it would be:

240X1450X.429 divided by 7000 = 21.3 Taylor KO Factor

In the case of the 45 Colt load listed in the beginning it would be:

250X950X.457 divided by 7000 = 15.5 Taylor KO Factor

By comparison the modern 45/70 has a TKO Factor of 55. The major advantage of this formula is that it does take bullet diameter into consideration. Bullet diameter does play a part in stopping power, a short fat bullet does more damage to tissue than a long thin one does in most cases.
Click to expand...

I think the type of bullet used has a significant impact. The Taylor formula doesn't take this into account.

Additionally, the Taylor formulas do NOT calculate any form of "energy" whatsoever. They produce arbitrary numbers that reflect his preference for heavy bullets based on his personal experiences. The two kinds of energy that are significant for projectiles are momentum, and kinetic energy. The Taylor formula takes a bastardized form of momentum into account, but not Kinetic energy. Momentum = M*V, where bullet weight and speed are given equal impact. When you look at Kinetic energy (M*V^2) the speed of the projectile has a much larger impact on energy.

And whats the "/ 7000" part? There are 7000 grains in a pound but the bullet weight has already been accounted for, and the powder charge is not a part of the formula. With the two items that could be weighed in grains ruled out, it appears to represent nothing real. Its simply a number that he had to use in order to get the results he wanted. Its not sound mathematics. But what do you expect? Taylor was a POACHER, not a mathematician. Neither am I but I don't claim to be and I don't go around making up bogus formulas.
 
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In response to the above: Nice rant...I always like folks who accuse others while contributing nothing themselves....cool...nuff said.

Trying to hotrod cartridges past their intended specs can be an iffy experiment. I am a wildcatter with 4 rifles that have never had any factory ammunition made for them. I have also been reloading for the past 35 years or so and have learned to respect the potential energy we hold in our hands. Until you have had a firearm blow up you really don't realize you how much power each round can contain, it has happened to me twice. Once, according to Federal, it was a bad piece of brass, the second was a load approved by the powder company but later found to create dangerous pressures. As I stated before if you want a 44 buy one...lol. There are currently a wide range of available handgun cartridges ranging from the diminutive 22 rimfire up through the 500S&W (not to mention all the rifle ammo that has been chambered in single shot pistols). If one of these does not meet your needs then consider wildcatting but simply exceeding the loading manuals to turn a sows ear into a silk purse only brings grief.
 
Mr. Trooper has a valid point about TKO whether you like it or not.

If you want compare TKO values of projectiles with similar properties, I personally think it some merit. However, I give no merit to values that compare for example large handgun rounds to mid-bore African rifles.
 
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