5.56 nato "wounding" round?

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I am looking for a rifle, and of course, there are far more 5.56 NATO chambered choices than any other.

What is the intended use of 5.56 NATO?

From what I read, the move from 7.62 down to 5.56 was to help out those who couldn't qualify with 7.62. Also, 5.56 is lighter, so people could carry more rounds and thus shoot more rounds.

However, the bullet is expected to tumble upon entry, otherwise it will pass through with the same amount of damage as .22LR.

Is it the reputed "wounding round"? Is 5.56 intended for soldiers only or is effective as a hunting round as well?

Should I be looking at 7.62 NATO or 7.62x39 as these rounds can be used as hunting rounds as well defensive?
 
7.62 NATO is 7.62x54 = .308, hunting/sniper round

7.62x39 is the Russian military round, a ".308 short"

5.56/.223 is the "standard" NATO round, smaller bullet at higher velocity than the Russian round = less weight and longer range but less knock-down power at shorter ranges

all of these rounds are effective in a variety of applications. You just need to buy the proper round for your application. Some are more expensive than others. I prefer the 7.62x39 lead-core hollow-point b/c it is effective and cheap.

see http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#RIFLE AMMUNITION
 
Most of the 223 bullets are for varmints like woodchucks.For that reason most states prohibited it for deer . However deer suitable bullets such as the Nosler Partition and the Barnes TSX are now available for things like deer. New York state recently changed and now permits deer hunting with the 223.
The cartridge has now evolved since the '60s. As a target round it is rapidly replacing the 222. It's a standard LE cartridge also. Make sure you match the bullet weight to the rifling twist also .That ranges from the early civilian 1 in 14 to the military 1 in 7 ! Even I've recently gotten a 223 finally !
 
the intended use of the 5.56 is killin folks, plain and simple, from around 350 yards or so and in, combat ranges, and being lite enought to carry lotsa rounds in a faily lite rifle.

imho they are not the best thing for deer hunting, or hog hunting, though it will suffice in either role, usually.

most folks seem to be going to heavier bullets nowadays, like the 75 or 77gr FWIW, and are imho the best choice for a 5.56, if your rifle has the right rifling anyway (ie 1-7" or 1-9"). any of them will hit a lot harder than a .22 LR if for no other reason than they have 2X or even 3X the velocity, its nothing like a .22 LR.

sure a 7.62 (.308) or even a 7,62X39 is a better hunting round for deer/hogs/etc, its been my experience a 5.45X39 AK74 is a better hog round, havent ever tried it on deer though, i've always found it odd that the 5.45X39 is supposed to be such a killer round, "poison bullet" the muj called it during the war, bigtime manstopper/etc, its not much different than the 5.56, go figure, perhaps bullet design, or it tumbles, something, i do know it seems to hit harder (on hogs) than the 5.56. the 7.62X39 also works better on hogs, the 7.62 nato/.308 is good for most anything in the lower 48 though.

i love my H&K 91, cool, accurate, reliable rifle, that said i wouldnt wanna pack the thing around all day with 8-10 mags, it gets heavy fast.

imho, with the heavier, new bullets, the 5.56 will do the job if you do yours, at moderate ranges, and is a great self defense round, if ya want a SD rifle that will do double duty as a deer rifle a 7.62 nato is a better choice, a 7.62X39 is too, its about like a old .30-30 and a .30-30 has killed a lotta game in the last 100 yrs or so,
 
I got my daughter a Remington model 7 in 223 when she was 11 years old. She is now 23 and has taken a deer every year with it shooting a Winchester 64 gr bullet. Most all were one shot kills and none went very far. I suppose one of these days I should tell her that her gun is no good for deer.
 
I would never use 223 for hunting deer given the choice. You might kill it but it may take quite a long time to bleed out so it will be suffering the whole time and you may very well lose it. If you want to hunt deer use a .308 (7.62).
 
Ummmm what is the intended purpose of the rifle?

X2

Also its important to note that while you can fire civilian .223 through a military 5.56NATO rifle, you should not fire 5.56NATO through a civilian .223 rifle. There are minute dimensional differences.

EDIT TO ADD:

Just to be more specific, don't know if I confused people for whatever reason:

* The cartridge casings for both calibers have basically the same length and exterior dimensions.
* The 5.56 round, loaded to Military Specification, typically has higher velocity and chamber pressure than the .223 Rem.
* The 5.56 cartridge case may have thicker walls, and a thicker head, for extra strength. This better contains the higher chamber pressure. However, a thicker case reduces powder capacity, which is of concern to the reloader.
* The 5.56mm and .223 Rem chambers are nearly identical. The difference is in the "Leade". Leade is defined as the portion of the barrel directly in front of the chamber where the rifling has been conically removed to allow room for the seated bullet. It is also more commonly known as the throat. Leade in a .223 Rem chamber is usually .085". In a 5.56mm chamber the leade is typically .162", or almost twice as much as in the 223 Rem chamber.
* You can fire .223 Rem cartridges in 5.56mm chambers with this longer leade, but you will generally have a slight loss in accuracy and velocity over firing the .223 round in the chamber with the shorter leade it was designed for.
* Problems may occur when firing the higher-pressure 5.56mm cartridge in a .223 chamber with its much shorter leade. It is generally known that shortening the leade can dramatically increase chamber pressure. In some cases, this higher pressure could result in primer pocket gas leaks, blown cartridge case heads and gun functioning issues.
* The 5.56mm military cartridge fired in a .223 Rem chamber is considered by SAAMI (Small Arm and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) to be an unsafe ammunition combination.


5.56mm NATO in .223 Rem has problems mostly because of the the neck and throat is tighter in .223 chambers. This sometimes causes an array of weird functioning problems including blowing primers

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Difference-556-223-t26227.html
 
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I would never use 223 for hunting deer given the choice. You might kill it but it may take quite a long time to bleed out so it will be suffering the whole time and you may very well lose it. If you want to hunt deer use a .308 (7.62).

I guess the 15 or so deer my daughter killed with her 223 was just a fluke. None took a long time to bleed out . Most only went a few yds before dropping. Inside of 125 yds or so a 223 is very deadly if you put the bullet in the right spot. Just sayin:)
 
X2

Also its important to note that while you can fire civilian .223 through a military 5.56NATO rifle, you should not fire 5.56NATO through a civilian .223 rifle. There are minute dimensional differences.

The 5.56 Nato chambered barrel is common in civilian AR15 rifles.
55grain bullets in 5.56 nato are about 200fps faster than 55grain .223 and have higher chamber pressure if I'm remembering correctly.

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/556-223-Ammunition-Ch-t22582.html
 
I am looking for a rifle, and of course, there are far more 5.56 NATO chambered choices than any other.

What is the intended use of 5.56 NATO?

Removing enemy soldiers from the battlefield. If you don't kill him, it will remove him and one or two others who are carrying him to safety.

From what I read, the move from 7.62 down to 5.56 was to help out those who couldn't qualify with 7.62. Also, 5.56 is lighter, so people could carry more rounds and thus shoot more rounds.

True enough. At some point, the powers that be decided that most soldiers either don't aim or can't see the enemy most of the time, so number of rounds fired is more important than the effectiveness of the individual round.

However, the bullet is expected to tumble upon entry, otherwise it will pass through with the same amount of damage as .22LR.

Not really true. The 5.56 NATO round has a much higher velocity, giving it vastly greater kinetic energy. This creates a much larger temporary cavity in the wound channel, causing a great deal more damage and disruption.

Is it the reputed "wounding round"? Is 5.56 intended for soldiers only or is effective as a hunting round as well?

It can be effective for hunting, but the smaller round requires more precise shot placement. I wouldn't suggest it for Cape Buffalo no matter how good you are.

Should I be looking at 7.62 NATO or 7.62x39 as these rounds can be used as hunting rounds as well defensive?

What are you planning to hunt? 7.62 NATO is equivalent to the .308 Winchester round, which is a pretty versatile hunting round. 7.63x39 gives ballistics very similar to the venerable .30-30 which is said to have taken more deer than all others together.
 
X2
Also its important to note that while you can fire civilian .223 through a military 5.56NATO rifle, you should not fire 5.56NATO through a civilian .223 rifle. There are minute dimensional differences.

There are differences in the rifling leade between the military 5.56 weapons and commercial 223 Rem chambered weapons. Commercial guns chambered for 223 Rem have a tighter/closer leade so firing military 55.6 ammo through a commercial 223Rem gun can cause higher pressures and wear.
 
A lot of it depends on the projectile. It's not 1960 anymore and there are a lot of options that make the cartridge perform significantly better than it has in the past, especially with regard to hunting applications.

Look into some of the heavier 70+ grain projectiles, especially the bonded bullets that are specifically designed for that application.

To really understand the 5.56 round you need to look at the AR15 design and the subsequent developments that occurred during submission and approval by the US Military. Getting to a good solid answer requires a lot of reading and learning using materials that really aren't available online. If you so desire a good starting point is the book The Black Rifle, it covers pretty much everything to do with the early AR15 series of weapons.

Online; you may want to start at the places:
http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56x45mm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington
 
Here's a picture of my daughter's buck she shot last year. The buck was about 80 yds. from her stand, smelling on a scrape, when a .223 Winchester 64 gr. Power Point Plus took him up tight behind the front shoulder. At the shot he turned and went about 3 bounds and fell. He was dead when we got there.

I'm not advocating that the .223 is the best deer gun in the world. My daughter has been shooting since the age of 5 and has been deer hunting since the age of 11. She's very calm and collected when taking a shot. I've always told her that precise shot placement is critical, no matter the game. We don't take sloppy shots. I've helped her field dress most of her deer and I can say with the right bullet, this caliber is very devastating.

As you can see from the picture, this was quite a large bodied deer. He weighed 200+ lbs. field dressed.


DSCF3639resized-1-1.jpg
 
I am looking for a rifle, and of course, there are far more 5.56 NATO chambered choices than any other.

What is the intended use of 5.56 NATO?

From what I read, the move from 7.62 down to 5.56 was to help out those who couldn't qualify with 7.62. Also, 5.56 is lighter, so people could carry more rounds and thus shoot more rounds.

However, the bullet is expected to tumble upon entry, otherwise it will pass through with the same amount of damage as .22LR.

Is it the reputed "wounding round"? Is 5.56 intended for soldiers only or is effective as a hunting round as well?

Should I be looking at 7.62 NATO or 7.62x39 as these rounds can be used as hunting rounds as well defensive?

Sundsvall,

Correct, the 5.56x45 mm was designed to be a lighter round for use at practical combat ranges with lower recoil and a flat trajectory. The idea wasn't all that new, the Germans and Brits had done substantial research both during and after WWII. It took a long time for the US to come around to the concept and now seems unwilling to part with it. As a hunting round, the heavier 77-80 grain rounds are adequate for game up to deer size with proper shot placement and where local laws permit the use of .223 rounds.

5.56 mm NATO is obviously a lot lighter than either 7.62x51 mm NATO or the Eastern Bloc countries then using 7.62x39 mm (deemed largely obsolete, now using a similar small caliber 5.45x39 mm round for all recent assault rifles) or 7.62x54R, so that you could carry more ammo within the same weight. It has far less recoil than 7.62x51 mm, allowed for lighter, shorter rifles to be used and was far more controllable on full auto. Round for round, it also cost less to manufacture, which may have been another important consideration.

The 5.56x45 mm use as a standardized military cartridge remains an area of controversy. While there are heavier projectiles available now (upwards of 80 grain, compared to the original 50-55 grain projectiles), 5.56/.223 Remington is heavily dependent on it's high velocity, though somewhat less so with heavier bullets.

As the bullet weight increases, the bullet must generally become longer and seat more deeply into the case. Longer bullets need more stabilization in flight and so the twist of the barrel must be increased. Original AR15s and early M16(A1) had a twist rate of 1 in 14 inches. Use of tracers, another very long round with low mass, and the new ball round designation that was used through the 80s and 90s required a faster twist than the original rifles tailored for a lighter round. As bullet weights have continued to be increased, new models of the basic design have featured faster twists to stabilize longer, heavier bullets.

5.56mm, to it's credit, can and does create substantial wounds despite it's small caliber, though this capability drops off fairly dramatically with range. The BC of the projectile isn't all that great for retaining that energy over distance. At 250 meters, most common 5.56x45 mm military rifles will be making .22 caliber holes and the bullets will tend not to fragment, bend or yaw wildly.

Some would argue the original wounding potential of the 5.56mm round have been lost, though with the rise of body armor the old round would have been far less effective. Heavier rounds with somewhat better BCs have already improved on the longer range performance, even if this has compromised some of the fragmentation potential, they still tumble fairly well due to their tail-heavy design.

The other problem is probably the rifles. The move to shorter and shorter barrels makes for less velocity at launch, further reducing the primary source of energy the 5.56mm relies upon. Heavier bullets can compensate somewhat, but these heavier rounds fired from shorter barrels affect the flat trajectory that 5.56x45 mm is known for. The net effect is while better for house to house fighting at short ranges, M4 style weapons are sacrificing velocity and energy for a shorter overall rifle, the most obvious fix being a move towards 77 grain projectiles, which has not happened yet. The bulk of the force is still using the 62 grain bullets. 79 grains is about as far as 5.56 mm can practically be pushed without changing the case to accommodate even longer bullets.

A move to bullpup rifle layout, as in France, Singapore, Britain, Austria, Australia and others would do a lot more for allowing a longer barrel while providing an even shorter package than the currently fielded M4. Fears of rounds cooking off next to the operators face appear bogus. Some of the bullpup rifles have provided added reinforcements to the receiver, added a small amount of added weight, to address that concern.

The issue of 5.56x45 mm effectiveness, while contentious, is more aggravated as the barrels lengths continue to drop or as the ranges these short rifles are asked to stretch to. The issue of shorter barrel length may be one of the primary motivations behind Special Forces' interest in moving up to the 6.8 mm SPC Remington round, or the 6.5 mm Grendel (without a large manufacturer backing them up, probably not going to happen, though I like the concept).

What made sense in the short-range jungle conflicts of 40+ years ago isn't necessarily the ideal choice for all theaters of war, indefinitely. This should be true of the venerable AR15 platform as well. Had there been more appreciation of the extensive research into the .280 British/Belgian round, the 5.56x45 mm might never have been adopted and the same could probably be said for the M16 as well. 6.8mm SPC is a close ballistic cousin to that "old" round, though 6.5mm Grendel can outperform both by a narrow margin at longer ranges (beyond 300 meters) and has more retained energy then 7.62 x 51 mm beyond about 600 meters.

By the way, not all 5.56mm or 7.62mm "NATO" rounds are exactly alike. Even when the weight of the projectiles and the pressure limits are standardized and otherwise uniform, the construction of projectiles often is not as it was not part of the details of the specification. For example, the Japanese had a 7.62x51 mm round during the 50s and early 60s that had half the recoil of the full-house rounds the US and British were using (i.e. well under the max pressure limits). The Germans were very slow to adopt 5.56x45 mm and had reduced power loads for their G3 rifles (again, pressure below the limits, useable in all 7.62x51 mm rifles if needed). Some of the hotter German and South African 7.62mm still being manufactured use a thinner jacket and are known to fragment similar to the M193 5.56mm ball round at the canalure. Belgian "heavy" 5.56mm gave rise to the current round (M855, 62 grain) now favored, an even heavier round is limited to special forces (Mk.262, 77 grain).

Not all NATO countries have the same rate of twist in their rifles and old rifles are sometimes fielded by reserve units, which can result in sub-optimal performance if surplus lots of ammo from one country find their way into the rifles of another.

As for tumbling, all long tapered rifle rounds will tumble in soft tissue, the amount of energy and the construction of the bullet determines the degree of instability and the point at which the bullet may break up, yaws and tear a permanent wound channel as it passes through. On impact, a high energy, long, low caliber bullet with a long, thin skinned, soft lead core bullet can bend in half, fragment into many pieces and yaw causing the nearly mythical maximum wounding potential. Faster, lighter bullets will tend to break up more easily, while more heavily built bullets will stay in one piece and continue to penetrate along reasonably straight paths, even as the bullet tumbles. Very fragile bullets begin to fragment within a few inches of penetration, while more solidly built bullets may take as much as 10 inches to do so. Temporary cavities aren't what do the real damage, it's the permanent cavities that cause the majority of tissue destruction.

-E
 
Most of the 223 bullets are for varmints like woodchucks.For that reason most states prohibited it for deer.

in Australia, the .223 is the most common round used by professional game meat shooters.

.22-250 and .222 are also popular.

these guys shoot a lot of 'roos and pigs with these rifles.
 
in Australia, the .223 is the most common round used by professional game meat shooters.

.22-250 and .222 are also popular.

these guys shoot a lot of 'roos and pigs with these rifles.

Among my Scandinavian relatives, it's the 6.5 mm Swedish that is the general purpose round for everything up to the indigenous smallish elk-sized moose. In South Africa, it's the .243 Winchester that gets most of the game, including some of the smaller bodied big 5. Both rounds are flat shooting, but only .243 could be called a barrel burner, 6.5 mm Swedish, like the Arisaska, are fairly mild. Both .243 and 6.5 Swede also have more muzzle energy and more energy at 300 meters than .223, though the range and size of the game taken may be a factor here. How large is a wild pig in the outbacks of Australia and what is a typical range for cleanly harvesting them?

-E
 
Erichsen posted a lot of good stuff. This is some of it:
As for tumbling, all long tapered rifle rounds will tumble in soft tissue, the amount of energy and the construction of the bullet determines the degree of instability and the point at which the bullet may break up, yaws and tear a permanent wound channel as it passes through. On impact, a high energy, long, low caliber bullet with a long, thin skinned, soft lead core bullet can bend in half, fragment into many pieces and yaw causing the nearly mythical maximum wounding potential. Faster, lighter bullets will tend to break up more easily, while more heavily built bullets will stay in one piece and continue to penetrate along reasonably straight paths, even as the bullet tumbles. Very fragile bullets begin to fragment within a few inches of penetration, while more solidly built bullets may take as much as 10 inches to do so. Temporary cavities aren't what do the real damage, it's the permanent cavities that cause the majority of tissue destruction.

I have 5.56's with 1in 12 rifling. Good for 55 grain rounds. Will not stabilize or fire accurately the 62 grain M855 ammo, or the heavier rounds

1 in 9 : Most barrells currently made have this. It's a great compromise. It does ok with the lighter and heavier bullets.

1 in 7: Used for a while on some Colts, possibly some others. This will over stabilize the rounds causing at times self destruction in flight ( lightly constructed 55 grain ammo) , or, in the case of the 62 grain green tip M855 the overstabilization causes it to shoot well, but it won't tumble on impact. Example: the complaints of not enough stopping power in Somalia. The rounds just "drilled" through not doing enough damage.

This rifling is great with the 72 grain ammo, and commonly used in match rifles.

Personal experience: After several failures to stop using the 12 guage with first #4 buck, then number 1 buck the .223's were brought out. With 55 grain SP ammo we had no more failures to stop. To be honest, I only know of one survivor. He was tore up bad enough to the point he had a colostomy bag for life.

All were within 125 yards or less. Typically within 70 yards on adrenaline fueled men wearing no body armor.

It impressed me enough to the point that I keep a .223 handy for home defense rather than a 12 guage.

Joe
 
I guess the 15 or so deer my daughter killed with her 223 was just a fluke. None took a long time to bleed out . Most only went a few yds before dropping. Inside of 125 yds or so a 223 is very deadly if you put the bullet in the right spot. Just sayin:)

killing a deer with a .22 LR is no big trick, as long as the range isnt too far and ya get a good hit, same thing w/a .223, its not that it wont work, its just that other rounds work a bit better, especially at longer ranges and if ya dont get a good hit. if ya dont get a good hit to start with sometimes a .300 H&H isnt big enough lol. when i was a kid one of my buds used a .225 and as long as the range wasnt too far and he got a good hit, all good, he killed a lotta deer with that thing and a .223 & .225 are pretty similar, nowadays he uses a .308 though, i bet ya cant get .225 ammo at every store on the block anymore lol..

i have heard some .223/5.56 with 1-7" bbls wont shoot 55gr stuff well, mine shoots it just fine though FWIW, as far as tumbling/etc i dont have a clue as to that, i know at 300 yards it shoots a clean round hole with no keyholing, it does do better with 75gr or 77gr (i usually use 77gr black hills FWIW).
 
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