52100 Pros and Cons

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foxbat34

Joined
Dec 26, 2008
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I notice that I dont see a lot of knives here made from 52100. Just wondering if there is a reason for that. I have made several knives with it and I really like working with it. The heat treating process is not that involved when compared to other high carbon steels. I made a knife to "test" and overall it performed well.


Maybe someone who uses it, (you there ED?;)) could chime in with some Pros and someone who doesn't like it so much could give me some cons.

I am still new at this and if 52100 is not a great blade steel I would like to know.

Thanks for the help.
 
A lot more people would use it if it was easier to find.
 
52100 is not that hard to find in forgeable stock but it is rather difficult to get in barstock. Kelly Cupples has some availible in 3/16ths. that and the fact that it will rust are the only drawbacks (neither one is a concern to me) that I can think of. it is capable of very fine grain when forged and heat treated in an acceptable manner. I have made blades from it that will bend 90 degrees with an edge hardness >60 hrc. I have done this with blades from 3 1/2 inches to over 10 inches. I cut rope in my shop to help determine edge holding ability and I have not found anyother steels that I can get to cut as well and still bend 90 without breaking. I use at the same approximate harness for everything that I make out of it and adjust my blade geometry as needed for the intended use. hatchets, tomahawks and choppers have a more obtuse (thicker) angle than hunters and kitchen knives are thinner than hunters. Razors are the thinnest that I make at about 5 thousanths just behind the cutting edge is the thinnest that i make.
 
As said, the main drawbacks are :
Availability in friendly size/shape.
Requirement for carefully forging.
Exact and complete HT ,requiring more than just simple equipment.
Availability of other steels that are nearly as good.


It is a bearing steel and is made for extreme toughness and wear resistance. It will produce a great knife with proper work. I use it as a core steel in damascus and san mai.

Stacy
 
I understand it's "stiff" under a forge hammer too, is that so? For instance 5160 seems a bit harder to knock around than 1084. I guess 52100 is even a little tougher to beat into submission. I got a hold of some 1" round stock, but it's just more than I want to hand hammer.
 
Farmer Phil said:
I understand it's "stiff" under a forge hammer too, is that so? For instance 5160 seems a bit harder to knock around than 1084. I guess 52100 is even a little tougher to beat into submission. I got a hold of some 1" round stock, but it's just more than I want to hand hammer.
Click to expand...

3/4" round in 52100 is larger than I want to deal with anymore by hand. Phil this would be a good steel to forge right after the students have there sugar fix if you can get them under control. A class room full of strikers. :D
 
i got a sheet or 52100 .200 thick but im using it for razors

for 6/8 and 7/8 razors that thickness works great and so far so good on the how it takes an edge
 
one Saturday I was playing in my shop, I decided to forge a few blades, started with 1084, then moved to 5160 and noticed a big difffernce in movement of this steel, then moved on to 52100 and noticed a greater differance in forge ability, when I have someone in my shop wanting to forge I start them off with mild steel and then move on to a tool steel and they always remark about the differance.
 
Nope, can't drink coffee and I haven't had my tea yet. I just had a very good day heat treating yesterday and am waiting on some parts in the etch;)
 
Just a heads up, Sullivan steel offers 52100 in sheets in these sizes:

0.201 x 39.37 x 78.74”

0.287 x 39.37 x 78.74

I was hoping to find some in stock removal sizes, but I don't have the ability to cut this stuff down:( Maybe it'll help someone else, though!
 
Once in a while I make a knife from a stash I have of 52100 mill balls. It is stiff forging and I just do it for orders and wild hairs.

It makes a very good knife steel, but the lack of cheap (reasonable) flat bars keeps me from using it a lot.

A2 forges similarly to 52100 and does come in more usable shapes and sizes.
 
I have one of Bill's fairly early pronghorn style knives and have used it on many hogs and deer. It performs superbly. The couple hunting buddies who have been trusted enough to use it have agreed. The high polish on Bill's blade seems to inhibit corrosion. I have some other less polished 52100 blades that appear to corrode more easily. I sometimes get a little tarnish/patina on Bill's blade but Flitz takes it right off. I don't keep any 52100 knives with my saltwater spearfishing gear but otherwise it is my favorite hunting-use steel.

DancesWithKnives
 
for me and heat treating its little easier then the other steel i use (not the same temps by a long shot)
so far as making sure you get your times and temps right i watch it like i do any SS or high alloy tool steel
its sure not 1084/95 or W2
that said i have a even heat and LN in house so ...
 
I moved from forging 5160 barstock to 1" rounds of Crucible L6 and ya its harder but not bad, at least i don't think so as i swing a 4 pound hammer. I get pumped up when I'm forging and kinda zone out, i have even been known to take my shirt off :foot::barf:. how is 52100 compared to L6?

here is a chart i found on Sullivan steel's website. what's the advantage of the other formulas.

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Kevin R. Cashen said:
Curiosity is killin me, what would those other steels be?
Click to expand...

Kevin
First of all let me say that I am new to this thats why Im trying to put due diligence into researching before settling on a specific material(s) for my knives. I would like to settle on one or two types of steel and learn them well in order to get a repeatable outcome.

So far I have used 10XX, 52100, L6 and 5160.

The HT process for 52100 that I have used is heat to 1550, oil quench wait 24 hours then repeat for a total of three times. Temper at 400 x3. I think this is similar to Ed Fowler. Im not saying Ed Fowler is right, or wrong for that matter. This is what I meant when I said it is not that much more involved than the other steels I have used. That is, to my understanding, it is the same basic principle with a little more work. The blade that I tested did perform well with respect to edge retention, flex, and it appeared to be somewhat abrasion resistant.

Maybe I am way off, thats why I asked for input here. I have had a hard time finding information about 52100 as it pertains to knives. Because of that I began to wonder if it is not suited to making blades even though some high profile makers use it.

I have become addicted to the process of making knives and I want to always better myself. I read as much as possible and have received much info from this and other forums. While right now I am somewhat constrained with less than optimal equipment and a general lack of knowledge, I am striving to improve.

Thanks for all your help.
 
bladsmth said:
Exact and complete HT ,requiring more than just simple equipment.
Stacy
Click to expand...

I beg to differ with you Stacey. I still use a torch to heat treat 52100 and I am getting results that are comparable or better than anyones. it is not smoke and mirrors but does take some practice to get right.
 
Foxbat34:
I have been forging 52100 for about 20+ years now. It is a steel that is backed by top quality control, this is one if its greatest assets.
Once I found a reliable source of 52100 which was all from the same batch my learning curve accelerated rapidly due to the exclusion of unknown variables in the steel.
52100 is a steel that you can push to high levels of performance as you learn to work it. If you let it soak at 1,625 f. for about 5 minutes before forging it is no harder to forge than other steels.
I have hardened every 52100 blade I make with my torch, that way you can dictate the hardened portions of the blade and leave the tang soft.

Doing it right you can scratch a 62 RC steel with your cutting edge. And still enjoy an easy to sharpen blade.

If you are at Blade Show stop by my table and I will provide you with all the information we have recorded to date.
Or visit our form and you will find lots of answers.
 
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