52100 steel??

Heartland_edc

Heartland_edc

Joined
May 4, 2015
Messages
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I have a buddy at work who's REALLY getting into knives. He came across one of Spyderco's "new?" Manix 2 sprints with 52100. He's always asking me about steel, and I usually have a fairly detailed answer for him. However, when he asked me what 52100 was, I sort of blurted out, "uh, well, its a ball bearing tool steel. Its like "super 1095", without really having any idea what I was talking about. (Something I read a while back on another forum) Truthfully, I only know the ball bearing part is true. What exactly are the benefits of 52100? Would it work well in a Manix 2? Toughness/edge retention/ease of sharpening compares well with what other steel? I know its high carbon with around 1% chromium. Is it like 3V? M4? 5160? VERY curious as this steel seems to be shrouded in both confusion and mystery. Lots of different, complex answers out there.
 
It's a popular steel for kitchen knife makers. I think the idea that it's a bit better than 1095 and O-1 is in agreement with what I've read about it.

I'm a little puzzled by the interest in the 52100 Manix at the Spyderco forum. It's a common low alloy steel that's been around for quite a while and it's not hard to find knives with it (Cold Steel has tons). It's not like it's Maxamet or whatever new and mysterious steel du jour.
 
With the right heat treat it has a fine grain and can reach high hardness. I have no clue if the Spyderco will be like that though. Although they're generally well thought of in the HT department.

The fine grain and high hardness means that it'll be relatively tough (as compared to a similar steel with course grain and the same hardness) and can take a very fine edge and keep it a decent amount of time.

Personally I don't understand why you'd want that in a tactical folder.....folders don't really need to be tough. And if it's edge retention you want you could always get Maxamet or S110V or something.

But everyone is entitled to personal taste so I guess that's the reason it exists.
 
With the described properties, it can have very acute edge angle and be a great slicer.

Normally found on fixed blade, which isn’t everyone’s choice / option for EDC, having it on folder makes it EDC-able.
 
52100 High Carbon
52100 High Carbon is a hard wearing steel that’s an excellent choice for custom hunting and outdoor fixed blades. Often used by custom knife makers in forged blades that require toughness and wear resistance in unforgiving conditions.

 
zhyla said:
It's a popular steel for kitchen knife makers. I think the idea that it's a bit better than 1095 and O-1 is in agreement with what I've read about it.

I'm a little puzzled by the interest in the 52100 Manix at the Spyderco forum. It's a common low alloy steel that's been around for quite a while and it's not hard to find knives with it (Cold Steel has tons). It's not like it's Maxamet or whatever new and mysterious steel du jour.
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Just because something isn't new and exotic, that doesn't mean it isn't good. Vanilla is the best selling ice cream flavor and pepperoni is the most common pizza topping for a reason. I haven't read into it myself, but I'd guess that the furor over using good ol' 52100 on a modern pocket knife is simply because it's good ol' 52100. It's familiar, well liked, and long proven.

Plus, plenty of people like carbon steels but don't want to mess the carbide-crazy CPM M4, Cruwear, Maximet, etc alloy tool steels that take forever with the right sharpening equipment to maintain.
 
I don't recall seeing a folder in 52100 before but Spyderco's always coming up with something unique. Remember those japaneese Superblue sprint runs , another steel you normally only see in a fixed blade.
 
I prefer kitchen knives in 52100...they get sharper and hold an edge better than any other of my kitchen knives (except for that one Shigefusa....).

When asked by a maker, I always request 52100 for the kitchen.

-Michael
 
Chefget said:
I prefer kitchen knives in 52100...they get sharper and hold an edge better than any other of my kitchen knives (except for that one Shigefusa....).

When asked by a maker, I always request 52100 for the kitchen.

-Michael
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I must say I can concur to this. My two last buys for the kitchen are a Fisherman by AAForge and a Long Hunter by Daado (both registered makers on BF), both in 52100. They are not originally conceived for the kitchen but they perform so incredibly well they give the high end stuff (Kai Shun Classic, very precious) a hard run for the money. They must be kept clean and dry, it's not stainless steel. However, I often do only wash and thoroughly dry them before putting them back in the drawer, leaving out the requested drop of oil. No rust, no stains, not even patina have developped so far. The cutting feeling is outstanding !
 
ScooterG said:
Also, most things you hear about SR101 (Busse) should also apply to 52100.
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^This. I love 52100 specifically the SR101 Swamprat/Busse flavor. The main appeal for me is the extreme toughness, so I'm only interested in using it in larger field knives or choppers. Note that it will rust easily like a simple carbon steel, and for this reason alone, I do not use it in folders or small field knives.

ETA: My fave knife ever in SR101 is a Swamprat Ratmandu. I'd like to get a Rodent 7 as well in the same steel.

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My favorite high carbon steel -- I have several Marbles blades in 52100 from Mike Stewart's era there. 52100 is a very tough, fine grained steel that takes a hair-whittling edge with little effort, compared to current 'super steels' with high carbide content like S30V. It will rust but that shouldn't be a problem if you're using it regularly. It takes a beautiful patina. I reserve my ancient Black Arkansas bench stone for high carbon blades; it seems to impart a micro-toothy edge beyond shaving sharp.
 
Alberta Ed said:
I reserve my ancient Black Arkansas bench stone for high carbon blades; it seems to impart a micro-toothy edge beyond shaving sharp.
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Interesting. Do you get a noticeably better edge with 52100 using Arkansas, compared to say diamond or AlOx stones? I don't have an Arkansas currently, but hey, always looking for an excuse to try another sharpening stone.
 
I don't know why, but the Black Arkansas gives an even better edge to high carbon steels than even my ultra-fine DMT. I inherited the stone from a great-uncle who was a carpenter.
 
I used a drop forged survivalist knife from cold steel in the woods recently, it really cut through branches and brush well, touch up on the edge is all it needed. for under 70.00 its the 52100 fixed blade that's hard to beat for the price.....
 
I was surprised that the one-piece 52100 knife in the Cold Steel informercial above broke so quickly. In Ed Fowler's Knife Talk book, he describes an elaborate heat treat of 52100 that was hand forged and given multiple heat treats over several days, including a triple quench. The blade was finally tempered for two hours in an oven at 375 degrees, then submerged in liquid nitrogen for 24 hours.

He had the steel evaluated by a laboratory, which found the carbide size extremely small -- between a half and one micron.

The blade was able to be flexed back and forth 180 degrees six and a half times before the edge cracked. The cutting edge was 58 Rc. The spine was 30 Rc.

According to Fowler, "... an edge of ultra-fine crystals can output a harder edge of larger crystal size and still remain tougher, as well as being easier to sharpen."
 
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