5th Annual: Help Us Build a Buck: 104 Compadre - Blade Grind

Blade Grind

  • Hollow Grind

    Votes: 4 5.1%

  • Flat Grind

    Votes: 48 60.8%

  • Sabre Grind

    Votes: 27 34.2%
  • Total voters
    79
  • Poll closed .
I beat the snot out of my Tops BOB. It started with a scandi (saber) grind and a convex edge. I ground it to purely scandi to remove the secondary bevel. It will tear through some wood, but not very good for much of anything else. The angle at which the blade grind starts is so obtuse that when making feather sticks it often breaks the pieces off. When cutting through thick material, it will either hang up or break the material before getting through it. If we're talking about batonning wood, the remedy is to beat the knife harder, right?

A key piece of the equation is missing here.

How thick is the blade stock on the Compadre? ​
-Is it thin enough that the scandi/saber grind isn't going to be an issue dragging? Do we want a chopper?
-Is the blade stock thin enough that the scandi is not going to be an issue?
-Is it so thick that a flat grind is going to be the best combination of cutting and chopping?
-Is it so thick that a hollow grind will give great cutting and slicing but still survive chopping?

My BOB is 3/16" thick. The scandi grind is less than 1/2 the blade height which is why the angle is so obtuse that it drags when cutting thick material. It's a beast of a chopper though! ​

I was hoping for a convex grind option because it will work like the scandi as a solid chopper, but with a persistent radius it won't suffer the drag issue as much. There's a reason bullets are convex and not hollow, flat, or saber. (use some imagination and apply the blade grind graphic to bullet cross sections)

My votes would build a user; not a shelfer. Still... I've not made up my mind.

Carry on...
 
Fixall said:
Sabre and flat grind are neck and neck, this is going to be a fun one!

As much as I would like a sabre grind on this particular knife to make it a bit more robust, I think the flat grind would also perform very well. My BK62 has a flat grind and is of similar thickness to the Buck 104 (.15" on the Kephart and .16" on the Buck) and performs phenomenally in the kitchen.

tLzlW5V.jpg


I think it just comes down to what you want this knife to be capable of. Are you going to mainly be using it chop a bunch of potatoes for breakfast at the camp? Go flat grind. Do you want to be able to split kindling in a pinch? Go sabre.

On another note... This thread really makes me wonder why Buck went with a hollow grind on the production 104.
Click to expand...

Assuming the goal of a camp knife, the Becker Kephart and Mora Kansbol are the the primary competitors in my mind.

I won't be voting on this one on account of the steel that was chosen but thought I'd share this picture of some of my knives in this general class and my thoughts on grinds and thicknesses.

Traditional fixed blades by Pinnah, on Flickr

The best camp knife I own is 2nd from the top. This is a Schrade H-15 from the 60s. The blade is intact in it's original short clip point configuration.

The knife below it is an older Schrade-Walden version of the same knife, but on this one I've reshaped the blade in something closer to a Kephart style. On both knives, I've removed the finger guards as I find they just get in way both on the cutting board and when working with wood.

For reference, on the bottom is a traditional Swedish puuko from 1901 and on the top, my grandfather's inexpensive no-name Bowie style hunting knife from the 50s.

IMO, thickness is almost more important than grind for a camp knife. The tasks I use my camp knife for are (in decreasing order): cutting food on a cutting board, making wood shavings to start fires, splitting kindling (smaller than I care to do with an axe or hatchet).

The Schrade H-15s are very thin by today's standards. They measure at 0.1" give or take a bit. That's noticeably thinner than either the Becker Kephart or the Buck Compadre. It's also much thinner than the old puuko, which is 0.17". [Note, the Mora Companion is another very thin knife coming in at just around 0.1".]

Regarding grinds, please observe the glare on blade of the 2nd knife from the top and note the indication of a slight saber grind. The H-15s have a highly convexed saber grind. IME, this give these knives noticeably better splitting power than a full flat grind. In my opinion this blade grind is the perfect grind for a camp knife. It does superbly with slicing potatoes and the like and it does great and light/moderate wood processing.

I think either the full flat or saber are fine for that use. Any new saber grind knife I get always gets convexed on my diamond stones. To my mind, the real issue is thickness. I would prefer to see this knife thinner, more in the 0.1" range.
 
MT_Pokt said:
I beat the snot out of my Tops BOB. It started with a scandi (saber) grind and a convex edge. I ground it to purely scandi to remove the secondary bevel. It will tear through some wood, but not very good for much of anything else. The angle at which the blade grind starts is so obtuse that when making feather sticks it often breaks the pieces off. When cutting through thick material, it will either hang up or break the material before getting through it. If we're talking about batonning wood, the remedy is to beat the knife harder, right?
Click to expand...

I convex all of my Scandi grind knives for exactly the reasons you mention. But, I don't like a Scandi grind to be too thick. Inspired by Vitorovice's video, I convexed a Companion HD but like you, I found it tended to break of feathers too easily. I convexed a much thinner plain Companion and it's my favorite for making shavings and fire sticks. It's my standard backpacking knife and I really wish Buck could produce something as good or better than the Companion.

Here's a fun video on convexing a knife like this. Hoyt Buck would scoff at the cross-grain battoning as this guy is only going through pine and not a steel bolt. ;^)

 
I think the Compadre blade is .15. Im good with either flat or Sabre. Chose sabre due to somewhat thin blade.

Stock Knife spec

Specifications
Overall Length 9.50"
Blade Length 4.50"
Blade Thickness 0.15"
Blade Material 5160
Blade Type Carbon
Blade Rockwell 54-58 HRC
Handle Material Micarta
Weight 7.10 oz.
Sheath Black Leather
Sheath Weight 2.00 oz.
Country of Manufacture United States
 
Fixall said:
Sabre and flat grind are neck and neck, this is going to be a fun one!As much as I would like a sabre grind on this particular knife to make it a bit more robust, I think the flat grind would also perform very well. My BK62 has a flat grind and is of similar thickness to the Buck 104 (.15" on the Kephart and .16" on the Buck) and performs phenomenally in the kitchen. Are you going to mainly be using it chop a bunch of potatoes for breakfast at the camp?
Click to expand...

Yea, you did, but you also were talking about and had a picture of using it in the kitchen...

What's wrong with camping in the snow? You wouldn't have to worry about creepy crawly's, mosquitoes, bees, fire ants, ticks, etc... that way...:D:D:D:p:cool:
 
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pinnah said:
Assuming the goal of a camp knife, the Becker Kephart and Mora Kansbol are the the primary competitors in my mind.

I won't be voting on this one on account of the steel that was chosen but thought I'd share this picture of some of my knives in this general class and my thoughts on grinds and thicknesses.

Traditional fixed blades by Pinnah, on Flickr

The best camp knife I own is 2nd from the top. This is a Schrade H-15 from the 60s. The blade is intact in it's original short clip point configuration.

The knife below it is an older Schrade-Walden version of the same knife, but on this one I've reshaped the blade in something closer to a Kephart style. On both knives, I've removed the finger guards as I find they just get in way both on the cutting board and when working with wood.

For reference, on the bottom is a traditional Swedish puuko from 1901 and on the top, my grandfather's inexpensive no-name Bowie style hunting knife from the 50s.

IMO, thickness is almost more important than grind for a camp knife. The tasks I use my camp knife for are (in decreasing order): cutting food on a cutting board, making wood shavings to start fires, splitting kindling (smaller than I care to do with an axe or hatchet).

The Schrade H-15s are very thin by today's standards. They measure at 0.1" give or take a bit. That's noticeably thinner than either the Becker Kephart or the Buck Compadre. It's also much thinner than the old puuko, which is 0.17". [Note, the Mora Companion is another very thin knife coming in at just around 0.1".]

Regarding grinds, please observe the glare on blade of the 2nd knife from the top and note the indication of a slight saber grind. The H-15s have a highly convexed saber grind. IME, this give these knives noticeably better splitting power than a full flat grind. In my opinion this blade grind is the perfect grind for a camp knife. It does superbly with slicing potatoes and the like and it does great and light/moderate wood processing.

I think either the full flat or saber are fine for that use. Any new saber grind knife I get always gets convexed on my diamond stones. To my mind, the real issue is thickness. I would prefer to see this knife thinner, more in the 0.1" range.
Click to expand...

This is the Buck Knife forum. Pictures are supposed to have Buck knives in them and your entire post is about every knife under the sun, except Buck. IMHO, I'm glad you're not voting on this. That way we can have enjoyable conversations without someone forcing their opinion down everyone else's throat like you have this entire process, JMHO....
 
Both flat and sabre grind are appealing to me, but I eventually went with the flat grind because in my mind it somehow fit better with the blade shape. I can't put my finger on the reason why, though.
 
MT_Pokt said:
I beat the snot out of my Tops BOB. It started with a scandi (saber) grind and a convex edge. I ground it to purely scandi to remove the secondary bevel. It will tear through some wood, but not very good for much of anything else. The angle at which the blade grind starts is so obtuse that when making feather sticks it often breaks the pieces off. When cutting through thick material, it will either hang up or break the material before getting through it. If we're talking about batonning wood, the remedy is to beat the knife harder, right?

A key piece of the equation is missing here.

How thick is the blade stock on the Compadre? ​
-Is it thin enough that the scandi/saber grind isn't going to be an issue dragging? Do we want a chopper?
-Is the blade stock thin enough that the scandi is not going to be an issue?
-Is it so thick that a flat grind is going to be the best combination of cutting and chopping?
-Is it so thick that a hollow grind will give great cutting and slicing but still survive chopping?

My BOB is 3/16" thick. The scandi grind is less than 1/2 the blade height which is why the angle is so obtuse that it drags when cutting thick material. It's a beast of a chopper though! ​

I was hoping for a convex grind option because it will work like the scandi as a solid chopper, but with a persistent radius it won't suffer the drag issue as much. There's a reason bullets are convex and not hollow, flat, or saber. (use some imagination and apply the blade grind graphic to bullet cross sections)

My votes would build a user; not a shelfer. Still... I've not made up my mind.

Carry on...
Click to expand...

A sabre grind is not a scandi grind. You're post makes it seem like they are the same thing but they are not.

How thick is the blade stock on the Compadre?
-Is it thin enough that the scandi/saber grind isn't going to be an issue dragging? Do we want a chopper?

The compadre is a 4.5" blade at 0.16"/4mm thick. Stout, but not overly thick. Compare to a becker BK2 (5.25" blade at 0.25" thick, saber/flat), Bk16 (4.35" at 0.165" thick, FFG), esee 4 (4.5" blade at 0.19" thick, FFG), OKC rat 5 (5" blade at 0.19" blade, FFG), kabar mark I (5.125" blade at 0.17" blade, FFG), kabar USMC (7" blade at 0.17" blade, saber/flat), Gerber strongarm (4.875" blade at 0.19" blade, saber/flat), Mora garberg (4.25" at 0.12" blade, scandi), and esee laserstrike (4.75" at 0.19" blade, high saber/high flat). I could go on.

Notice something similar in the blade thickness? It's a great thickness for nearly any blade grind. I think 3-4mm is the sweet spot for a knife that you want to do a little bit everything. The compadre will not be a chopper just because it gets a flat grind, too thin, too light, too short.

-Is the blade stock thin enough that the scandi is not going to be an issue?

NA, scandi isn't even an option.

-Is it so thick that a flat grind is going to be the best combination of cutting and chopping?

It will be a good combo. So will FFG. There are many FFG options on the market around that blade length and with that blade thickness.

-Is it so thick that a hollow grind will give great cutting and slicing but still survive chopping?

Stock compadre is already hollow and why it's less appetizing. The compadre isn't as thick as the buck 119 (4.3mm), which is known for being a great slicer.


**all specs pulled from Blade HQ.
 
I know it's not an option, but out of curiosity... Does Buck have the equipment and ability to make a convex grind?
 
I still prefer ffg......but a, thinner as it will be, sabre will work well. its gonna be a winner either way
 
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Come on flat grind! I will buy one either way, but in most uses I think the flat grind will perform much better.
 
Please dont quote me out of context and attempt to correct me.

Tops sold the BOB as a scandi grind, but it had a secondary bevel that was convex. I reground it to remove the secondary bevel to make it a true scandi.

For every chart one finds on the interwebs that calls the two different, you can find one calling them the same.

Let's not over complicate this. The blade thickness determines how useful the grind is in a particular blade.

Case in point- the 2018 forum knife... Everyone was gung ho about a flat grind, then boo-hooing because of the thickness behind the edge. Blade thickness is a key factor in choosing the grind type, and that's the point I was making.

And unless your using a sharpening rig that clamps the blade and stone at a specific angle; you will almost always have a convex cutting edge.
 
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