6AL4V Titanium vs TC4 Titanium

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Mr.Tuesday

Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
52
Does anyone know if there's a significant difference between these two types of titanium? The TC4 seems to be cheaper and used on many over seas produced knives but that doesn't necessarily mean it's inferior. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
 
Looks like the four is like a CP grade. So great for non pressurized plumbing and jewelry.

6-4 is a hard alloy. Nobody wants a soft knife.
 
Thanks that's very helpful. What I gather from this is that it's okay to use TC4 for cosmetic embellishment but nothing integral to the knife's operation.
 
Eh?

Grade 2, or CP Ti works absolutely fine for liners, bolsters, pins, guards, whatever, in many cases, it's preferable.



Most people use grade 5 (6al4v) ti just because "it's supposed to be stronger", with no real understanding of the advantages and disadvantages, relative to other grades. Grade 2 wouldn't be ideal for a the lock bar on a liner or frame lock, but it has better machining characteristics, and formability, and is extremely strong material.


6al4v wont make a decent blade regardless, unless in the highly specific scenario and use, of an electro spark depositied "carbidized" knife. There are some exotic alloys that supposedly have better characteristics for mono-material "blades", but I don't personally know much about that.



What is the OP hoping to use titanium for, regardless?
 
I was just curious about the properties of TC4 because it was a cheaper and I had seen it used on several foreign frame locks. I wanted to know if there would be a significant difference in strength between the TC4 and 6AL4V.
 
From my reading 6AL4V and TC4 are the same. Grade 5 Titanium.

I have personally seen some questionable 'metal', even with accreditation, coming from China in my line of work so be weary. I rather buy from the States from someone I trust and know what I get.
 
javand said:
Eh?

Grade 2, or CP Ti works absolutely fine for liners, bolsters, pins, guards, whatever, in many cases, it's preferable.



Most people use grade 5 (6al4v) ti just because "it's supposed to be stronger", with no real understanding of the advantages and disadvantages, relative to other grades. Grade 2 wouldn't be ideal for a the lock bar on a liner or frame lock, but it has better machining characteristics, and formability, and is extremely strong material.
Click to expand...

From my experience Grade 2 does not work for a liner or frame lock. Even when carbidized it will deform and become unreliable. It loses its memory after around a hundred cycles or so. It scratches far to easily as well.
 
marthinus said:
From my experience Grade 2 does not work for a liner or frame lock. Even when carbidized it will deform and become unreliable. It loses its memory after around a hundred cycles or so. It scratches far to easily as well.
Click to expand...

I said specifically that grade 2 is not appropriate for the locks on liners or frame locks, mostly because it lacks the "spring" characteristics of grade 5. So yes, I agree completely. That's the primary exception however.


As to which grade or alloy TC4 ti is, I have no idea.
 
There's also 6al4v ELI which is a bio implant metal. I believe it is much tougher than 6al4v. Not necessary for knife use, but it's out there, so figured I'd mention it. Might be better on a frame lock where a steel insert is not used.
 
javand said:
I said specifically that grade 2 is not appropriate for the locks on liners or frame locks, mostly because it lacks the "spring" characteristics of grade 5. So yes, I agree completely. That's the primary exception however.


As to which grade or alloy TC4 ti is, I have no idea.
Click to expand...

I am also in agreement with you, I can see my initial post could have been misinterpreted. My apologies.
 
Mr.Tuesday said:
Does anyone know if there's a significant difference between these two types of titanium? The TC4 seems to be cheaper and used on many over seas produced knives but that doesn't necessarily mean it's inferior. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Good question. :thumbup:

javand said:
I said specifically that grade 2 is not appropriate for the locks on liners or frame locks, mostly because it lacks the "spring" characteristics of grade 5. So yes, I agree completely. That's the primary exception however.


As to which grade or alloy TC4 ti is, I have no idea.
Click to expand...
Good answer. :thumbup:

I'm not aware of any TC4 lock/liner failures nor have I experienced one myself, but then I'm not sure how long TC4 has been used to make folder locks/liners nor do I have any idea what grade of TC4 is used in their construction.

If a lock/liner constructed of TC4 were to fail, Javan, how would the failure manifest itself? Or to put it another way, would a TC4 lock/liner failure more likely show up as cracking, breaking, failure to engage properly (spring failure?), blade-play or some other defect? And all other things being equal, would a TC4 lock/liner tend to fail more quickly and/or catastrophically than a 6AL4V lock/liner under normal use?
 
Last edited:
bld522 said:
Good question. :thumbup:


Good answer. :thumbup:

I'm not aware of any TC4 lock/liner failures nor have I experienced one myself, but then I'm not sure how long TC4 has been used to make folder locks/liners nor do I have any idea what grade of TC4 is used in their construction.

If a lock/liner constructed of TC4 were to fail, Javan, how would the failure manifest itself? Or to put it another way, would a TC4 lock/liner failure more likely show up as cracking, breaking, failure to engage properly (spring failure?), blade-play or some other defect? And all other things being equal, would a TC4 lock/liner tend to fail more quickly and/or catastrophically than a 6AL4V lock/liner under normal use?
Click to expand...



I don't make liner or frame locks, so I'm not the most qualified to answer this question, however I'll speculate; *If* TC4 is bascially CP or grade 2 Ti, then most likely you wont be able to get an acceptable engagement in the first place. CP ti will bend and stay bent, deflect or distort. It lacks the "springiness" that 6al4v (grade 5) has, in the first place. That's an advantage for machining and forming, but not for creating a lock. 6al4v is also overall stronger, and slightly less prone to galling and scratching. Even 6al4v benefits from carbidizing the lock faces, because titanium simply isn't good at wearing against other materials, as it lacks hardness and abrasion resistance.


Basically if you did get it to bend properly and engage the lock, excessive force could/would cause permanent deflection later. If you bent the lock bar somehow, in some undesirable direction, it'd likely stay there.

"Strength" is a relative term, which, in the case of titanium, creates a lot of confusion.
 
Thanks, Javan. Again, I haven't heard of any TC4 lock/liner failures occurring as a result of the conditions you described, so I'm guessing grade 2 Ti isn't begin used.

I suppose we'll find out in due time if anyone is experiencing a problem with their TC4 locks/liners. Until then, however, I won't be losing any sleep over it. :)
 
I think we're talking about 2 different animals also. One a folder made by a reputable bladesmith who's done his homework on materials, and two a "cheaper overseas produced" item extrapolated to be sold via an auction site and with the word titanium put in the listing repeatedly to attract the unwary.
 
Yep. Those are the usual assumptions, all right. Unfortunately, they're normally made by those who have never handled a high-grade, cheaper, overseas-produced item and therefore have no idea what they're talking about.
 
Last edited:
Overseas is such a grey term. Folks make great knives all over the world but if you're getting a super custom Ti folder for $4.50 you can pretty much guess that it's junk.
 
No argument there. As with most things in life, you get what you pay for. And "cheaper" is a relative term. Or to put it another way, some "cheap" overseas-produced items are cheaper than others. ;)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top