7Cr17Mov vs 8Cr13Mov?

[Chronovore]

Both 7Cr17Mov and 8Cr13Mov are used in Chinese-produced budget knives. Neither is considered a great blade steel. In my opinion, they both tend to be better than 3Cr13, 5Cr15Mov, and various mystery steels that get more popular the further below $20 you go. Both are considered "easy to sharpen".

In theory, I'm guessing 8Cr13Mov should be better a little better at holding an edge. In practice, has anyone noticed a big difference? I've had a lot of knives in 8Cr13Mov and only a couple in 7Cr17Mov. I haven't noticed much of a difference and I'm guessing that it's a wash versus factors like heat treatment or blade geometry on individual knives. I'd love to hear from people who have more experience with 7Cr17Mov.

One place where 7Cr17Mov should shine is in corrosion resistance. It has a lot more chromium. It is similar to 440A but with a little nickel. People used to praise 440A for its corrosion resistance, at least within the realm of budget knives. I have seen some praise for 7Cr17Mov in budget "survival knives" and I'm guessing this is a big part of it.

Here is a chemical comparison between 7Cr17Mov and 8Cr13Mov:

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=7cr17mov, 8cr13mov&hrn=1&gm=0

Here is a chemical comparison between 7Cr17Mov and 440A:

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=7cr17mov, 440a&hrn=1&gm=0

Here is 7Cr17Mov viewed in series with a few other popular Chinese budget steels:

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=3cr13, 5cr15mov, 7cr17mov, 9cr18mov&hrn=1&gm=0

I did not include 8Cr13Mov in the last comparison because its low chromium bucks the trend. Both in terms of chemical composition and my own limited experience, 9Cr18Mov seems to be the darling of this steel family. However, there are far fewer knives available in 9Cr18Mov and they can be a tad more expensive. There are lots of budget knives available in 7Cr17Mov and tons in 8Cr13Mov.

So what are your experiences with these steels? If you absolutely had to choose between these two, which would you carry?

 

[JupiterPaladin]

Either are fine. For not much more cash you can get better steels like D2

 

[knarfeng]

The first number equates to the amount of carbon in the steel.
5 = .45%-.5% which is about equal to 420HC
7 = .6% to .75%, About equal to 440A
8 ...roughly equal to 440B or AUS 8
9...a bit lower than 440C

Any of those steels will work for a knife depending on the final level of hardness.
I've had good performance from 7, 8, and 9. Haven't tried anything in 5

 

[Rich S]

I like 9Cr... over 8 cr... even though 8Cr.. is what Kershaw, CKRT and others use mostly. Surprisingly some of the older Taylor Schrades used 9Cr... IMHO it takes and holds a better edge, but for routine use the 8Cr.. is fine.
Rich

 

[eugenechia1989]

I'm assuming my Gerber Mini Paraframe is made from 7Cr17MoV, though Gerber does not explicitly state what steel is used aside from "high carbon stainless". Didn't hold an edge at all, and I could only really put a working edge on it. The sharpest I could get it, it struggled to shave.

8Cr13MoV, on my Spyderco Tenacious, works well. Holds an edge surprisingly well particularly for an occasional user like myself. I have used it hard and it does roll quite easily, but the rolling is very easily fixed with a touch-up on a ceramic rod. I find it easier to sharpen to a shaving sharp edge than 7Cr17MoV which I could barely get to shave...

9Cr18MoV on my Schrade SCH304M I think is a pretty darn good steel. Comparable to AUS-8 (Ontario RAT folders) in edge retention though seems a bit more difficult to sharpen, suggesting it may be a harder steel. I can't get it as sharp as AUS-8 though which is why I'd still prefer AUS-8 over 9Cr.

Bear in mind these are just my experiences with the steels as used in these specific knives. Specific to differences in heat treatment and etc. E.g. I've heard that CRKT and Kershaw's 8Cr13MoV isn't great, whereas Spyderco's is very well done, but I've never bought a CRKT so I wouldn't know for myself.

 

[Chronovore]

Either are fine. For not much more cash you can get better steels like D2

I remember when 8Cr13Mov was becoming a standard in the budget range and at the time, it wasn't a bad thing. Of course, the market has come a long way. Now, I'm seeing a lot of D2 showing up in knives at prices that previously would have been 8Cr13Mov. I'm seeing D2 dominate the budget roster for some companies, such as in recent offerings from Bestech and Civivi. That might be a good thing. Sure, 8Cr13Mov is easier to sharpen. In my limited experiences with budget D2, the edge is going last enough longer to be worth it.

Generally, I prefer a more stainless steel for EDC. Neither D2 nor 8Cr13Mov are great at resisting corrosion. I typically prefer 14C28N, VG-10, or a good 9Cr18Mov. While I don't expect 7Cr17Mov to compare favorably to those steels, I think the corrosion resistance may be valuable (at least when compared to 8Cr13Mov). It's a big part of why I started this thread.

... 9Cr18MoV on my Schrade SCH304M I think is a pretty darn good steel. Comparable to AUS-8 (Ontario RAT folders) in edge retention though seems a bit more difficult to sharpen, suggesting it may be a harder steel. I can't get it as sharp as AUS-8 though which is why I'd still prefer AUS-8 over 9Cr.

Bear in mind these are just my experiences with the steels as used in these specific knives. Specific to differences in heat treatment and etc. E.g. I've heard that CRKT and Kershaw's 8Cr13MoV isn't great, whereas Spyderco's is very well done...

I've had enough knives in 8Cr13Mov to notice small differences between brands. Being on a budget, 9Cr18Mov is the steel that first clued me in to bigger differences. Setting aside corrosion resistance, I had a few knives in 9Cr18Mov that didn't really impress me. The edge retention and overall cutting performance weren't much better than 8Cr13Mov. Then I got a Civivi...

The Naja has been my primary carry since March and I recently picked up a Baklash. Between the blade geometry and what I'm guessing is a proper heat treatment, these are fantastic slicers. Edge retention seems superior to anything I've had in 8Cr13Mov or AUS-8. This experience really turned me around on 9Cr18Mov and showed me what a good budget maker can get out it. I plan to try out Real Steel's 9Cr18Mov this fall.

All this has me wondering how much variability there is in 7Cr17Mov. In the right knife, can it be a good stainless alternative to 8Cr13Mov? I'm hoping to get some more posts from people who've spent time with it.

 

[flashcan556]

i read somewhere coast knives were 9cr something...but cant find anywhere on their products or website where it verfies that. if its true that makes them a pretty screaming deal for budget folder imo.

 

[Chronovore]

i read somewhere coast knives were 9cr something...but cant find anywhere on their products or website where it verfies that. if its true that makes them a pretty screaming deal for budget folder imo.

I've seen Coast knives at the hardware store but I've never owned one. It looks like they use a few different steels but not all of their knives say which one. Some in the $10 range say 4Cr14Mov. It looks like a few in the $20 range use 7Cr17Mov. Their DX356 says 9Cr18Mov and is around $35.

Like I said previously, I've had varied performance from 9Cr18Mov depending on the company. On some knives, it seems fairly unremarkable versus the two topic steels here. On the two examples from Civivi I've tried, it's been another story. It seems that when properly done, 9Cr18Mov is closer to 14C28N in terms of EDC performance.

 

[Chronovore]

Gerber just released the "Highbrow" in 7Cr. Is that shorthand for 7Cr17Mov or something entirely different? Between the name and an average retail price of $32.95, I'm wondering if I'm missing something here...