My Spyderco Tenacious has the 8cr13mov and so far the steel is pretty good at holding an edge, its razor sharp right now and i've put it through some pretty harsh work and it held up well. From what I have seen it is on par with AUS-8 so far. Great knife for only 30 bucks...
8Cr13MoV
- Thread starter TJR0JAY
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Hi VWB,
"The edge is the knife. The blade is there to support the edge. The handle is there to control the edge. When you select a knife by looking at just the handle, perhaps you are exploring the wrong end of the knife? A lot of people get married that way, but that's another story"
yes. I guess for some.. my self included... the back end is what we see first..
anyway, I know this is an old thread, but I recently got a a crkt with 8Cr14, 58-59 HRC and read this whole thing before i realized it's not the 8cr13mov you guys gave been talking about. Sal do you or does anyone else have an opinion on the difference??
thanks
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My thoughts exactly. I used 3 Rescue knives in ATS-55 removing old climbing ropes and webbing from some routes in Minnesota. Nearly all the tips on the serrations broke off. The 440C designation always had me wondering too. I don't trust the Chinese in making my knives.
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The Rescues you used in ATS-55 were not Chinese.They were Seki, Japan made Spyderco knives. I used an ATS-55 C-44 Dyad commercial lobstering for a year and did not experience any chipping. In my experience ATS-55 deforms before it chips. I recently sharpened an ATS-55 Orange Rescue for a shipmate on the towboat I work on and the edge was rolled. I could feel the burr on the non-ground side of the serrations. It sharpened up well using the Sharpmaker even though it appeared to have been previously sharpened with a chainsaw file and abused by its original owner.
My experiences with 8CrMoV has been varied. The first knife I used was a Byrd Raven plain edge and it seemed brittle, took a toothy edge and seemed to chip rather than bend. The newer Cara Cara Rescue I have been using takes a much smoother, finer edge and deforms rather than chips.
My experiences with 8CrMoV has been varied. The first knife I used was a Byrd Raven plain edge and it seemed brittle, took a toothy edge and seemed to chip rather than bend. The newer Cara Cara Rescue I have been using takes a much smoother, finer edge and deforms rather than chips.
Sal Glesser
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Hi NYDude,
Spyderco was the first production company to regularly mark the steel used on almost all of their blades (early 80's) . Spyderco was the first to use Hitachi's ATS-34 in US production. Spyderco was the first production company to use Crucible's CPM-440V in knives. Spyderco introduced ATS-55, a new steel developed by Hitachi and at the same time, we introduced VG-10.
In using new steels from foundries, there is little or no actual real world knowledge available. Only lab tests. VG-10 turned out to be more effective in real world testing than ATS-55, so ATS-55 was dropped and VG-10 became our "base" steel for Seki-City production. (Brownshoe's opinions often tend to have a negative bend towards Spyderco).
When we first decided to make knives in China, most of the competitive knife-makers were already making knives in China. When we asked our Chinese vendors, "what is the best steel available in China?", We were told it was 440C. Looking at the knives coming in from China, most were marked 440. (We didn't know if that meant 440A, 440B or 440C). We told our makers that we would like to use 440C (which we assumed our competitors were also using).
We went through a number of trading companies and quite a few factories before we came up with factories that seemed to be able to do the quality we wanted. (We did the same thing in Seki-City 20 years before).
We tested the samples and the performance in edge retention was in the 440C range. We assumed it was 440C).
When the first production pieces came in, all of the knives were marked 440C as we had requested. We tested the steel in a lab for chemical content, something we'd been doing for years.
We found from the chemical report that the chemistry was off for 440C. We informed our vendors that there was an issue with the mark. We asked them what the actual steel was that they were using? It performed well, but the mark was not accurate. They were surprised that we'd tested and told us the Chinese name for the steel was 8Cr13MoV and they supplied to us the foundry specs. The writing was in Chinese, but the elements and numbers were universal and they matched our own tests.
We told them that we had to put 8Cr13MoV on the blade. We felt that it was not proper of us to put one mark on the blade that was not the actual steel used. Since then we have marked our blades with the steel used which is 8Cr13MoV. We have a number of "byrd" models using this steel and a couple of Spyderco models. It is a good steel, especially at the price.
We have tested 9Cr18Mo and that will be our next "Mule Team" test piece, but we've not yet used it in production. We've not used or tested any of the other Chinese steels that we are seeing marked on blades; 8Cr18MoV, etc.
We are using a 3Cr in our small "bug" model and will until we can get some 12C27 shipped into China for the "bug" models.
Hope that helps.
sal
Spyderco was the first production company to regularly mark the steel used on almost all of their blades (early 80's) . Spyderco was the first to use Hitachi's ATS-34 in US production. Spyderco was the first production company to use Crucible's CPM-440V in knives. Spyderco introduced ATS-55, a new steel developed by Hitachi and at the same time, we introduced VG-10.
In using new steels from foundries, there is little or no actual real world knowledge available. Only lab tests. VG-10 turned out to be more effective in real world testing than ATS-55, so ATS-55 was dropped and VG-10 became our "base" steel for Seki-City production. (Brownshoe's opinions often tend to have a negative bend towards Spyderco).
When we first decided to make knives in China, most of the competitive knife-makers were already making knives in China. When we asked our Chinese vendors, "what is the best steel available in China?", We were told it was 440C. Looking at the knives coming in from China, most were marked 440. (We didn't know if that meant 440A, 440B or 440C). We told our makers that we would like to use 440C (which we assumed our competitors were also using).
We went through a number of trading companies and quite a few factories before we came up with factories that seemed to be able to do the quality we wanted. (We did the same thing in Seki-City 20 years before).
We tested the samples and the performance in edge retention was in the 440C range. We assumed it was 440C).
When the first production pieces came in, all of the knives were marked 440C as we had requested. We tested the steel in a lab for chemical content, something we'd been doing for years.
We found from the chemical report that the chemistry was off for 440C. We informed our vendors that there was an issue with the mark. We asked them what the actual steel was that they were using? It performed well, but the mark was not accurate. They were surprised that we'd tested and told us the Chinese name for the steel was 8Cr13MoV and they supplied to us the foundry specs. The writing was in Chinese, but the elements and numbers were universal and they matched our own tests.
We told them that we had to put 8Cr13MoV on the blade. We felt that it was not proper of us to put one mark on the blade that was not the actual steel used. Since then we have marked our blades with the steel used which is 8Cr13MoV. We have a number of "byrd" models using this steel and a couple of Spyderco models. It is a good steel, especially at the price.
We have tested 9Cr18Mo and that will be our next "Mule Team" test piece, but we've not yet used it in production. We've not used or tested any of the other Chinese steels that we are seeing marked on blades; 8Cr18MoV, etc.
We are using a 3Cr in our small "bug" model and will until we can get some 12C27 shipped into China for the "bug" models.
Hope that helps.
sal
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- Jun 10, 2009
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Sal, thanks for the in depth response. It really does make a difference when a company becomes so involved with the materials and manufacturing process.
Pete1977 reposted this description from 3Guardsman, with regards to 8cr13 vs. 8cr14
8cr13mov AUS-8, 440B: Work knife, daily use, decent edge retention with a little less (than 8Cr14MoV) corrosion resistance
8cr14mov AUS-8, 440B: Work knife, daily use, decent edge retention and decent corrosion resistance
Does this gel with everyones experiences? It seems to be a pretty specific.
This was really the first knife I bothered to do any research on and have since read quite a bit about different products here on the forum.
Thanks guys for being so responsive!
M.
Pete1977 reposted this description from 3Guardsman, with regards to 8cr13 vs. 8cr14
8cr13mov AUS-8, 440B: Work knife, daily use, decent edge retention with a little less (than 8Cr14MoV) corrosion resistance
8cr14mov AUS-8, 440B: Work knife, daily use, decent edge retention and decent corrosion resistance
Does this gel with everyones experiences? It seems to be a pretty specific.
This was really the first knife I bothered to do any research on and have since read quite a bit about different products here on the forum.
Thanks guys for being so responsive!
M.
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- Jul 30, 2006
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- 38,780
Stabbing a folding knife into a stump is not very impressive in and of itself. So much so that how the knife performs is overshadowed by ignorance of the act itself.
im sure no one has ever done that. since its such a knife destroying maneuver. holy crap i must have been sniffing glue!
:jerkit:
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Old thread but as good as any to praise my Byrd...
My Crossbill is great, plain and simple. Is it made of S30V? Does it hold an edge as long as my Manix? No, not quite. The Manix will make it a whole day (sometimes two) without needing a touch-up; the Byrd will need at least one, sometimes more. It also seems to rust a little more easily but it's only surface rust, and what I can't scrape off with a thumbnail wipes off with oil.
The handle scratches up too. I could care less but others may.
I spend a lot of time cutting protective fabrics for containment around welding jobs, primarily "salmon cloth" and the thicker fiberglass mat stuff. I also have to remove heavy-duty industrial insulation from steel surfaces sometimes. Those of you who have cut this stuff know what it does to knives, and how quickly it does it. I will not say that my Byrd zips right through it with no effect; it dulls quickly. (Everything dulls quickly on this.) It cuts it as well as more expensive knives and perhaps more importantly, it sharpens right up again -- five or ten licks per side on the EZE-Lap medium stone and it's ready for more. That's only a few seconds out of my day. I don't mind sharpening frequently if it's that easy. A few swipes on my leg takes care of any burr that may remain.
Perhaps most importantly, and I mentioned this in another thread...this is a knife that I can afford to lose. I almost lost it today when I passed it off to a welder to make some tricky cuts on some unseen insulation. He cursed, I heard the dreaded clink-clink-SPLOOSH, and I frowned.
"Did you just drop my knife?"
"Yeah."
"Can you reach it?"
"I don't know. Maybe."
"If you can't, you owe me $20."
He got it, but the important thing is that it does what I want, when and how I want, and when it eventually goes away I can afford another one. That's pretty much my definition of a working knife right there. 8Cr13MoV seems to be a steel that allows an acceptable price point for acceptable performance, and I'm very glad that such a thing is available.
There are better steels and I own (and enjoy owning) them, but they often cost so much that I'm reluctant to bring these knives into this environment. I don't want to make it sound like a Byrd is disposable -- that is not the case at all. It's more that the bang-for-the-buck factor is high enough that I'm willing to take chances with one that I wouldn't take with something else.
The steel's fine. Not the best -- and it is not advertised as such -- but perfectly adequate for what a folder is supposed to do, and priced very attractively. These Byrds have changed my expectations of what Chinese manufacturers can produce and have confirmed my opinions about Spyderco.
My Crossbill is great, plain and simple. Is it made of S30V? Does it hold an edge as long as my Manix? No, not quite. The Manix will make it a whole day (sometimes two) without needing a touch-up; the Byrd will need at least one, sometimes more. It also seems to rust a little more easily but it's only surface rust, and what I can't scrape off with a thumbnail wipes off with oil.
The handle scratches up too. I could care less but others may.
I spend a lot of time cutting protective fabrics for containment around welding jobs, primarily "salmon cloth" and the thicker fiberglass mat stuff. I also have to remove heavy-duty industrial insulation from steel surfaces sometimes. Those of you who have cut this stuff know what it does to knives, and how quickly it does it. I will not say that my Byrd zips right through it with no effect; it dulls quickly. (Everything dulls quickly on this.) It cuts it as well as more expensive knives and perhaps more importantly, it sharpens right up again -- five or ten licks per side on the EZE-Lap medium stone and it's ready for more. That's only a few seconds out of my day. I don't mind sharpening frequently if it's that easy. A few swipes on my leg takes care of any burr that may remain.
Perhaps most importantly, and I mentioned this in another thread...this is a knife that I can afford to lose. I almost lost it today when I passed it off to a welder to make some tricky cuts on some unseen insulation. He cursed, I heard the dreaded clink-clink-SPLOOSH, and I frowned.
"Did you just drop my knife?"
"Yeah."
"Can you reach it?"
"I don't know. Maybe."
"If you can't, you owe me $20."
He got it, but the important thing is that it does what I want, when and how I want, and when it eventually goes away I can afford another one. That's pretty much my definition of a working knife right there. 8Cr13MoV seems to be a steel that allows an acceptable price point for acceptable performance, and I'm very glad that such a thing is available.
There are better steels and I own (and enjoy owning) them, but they often cost so much that I'm reluctant to bring these knives into this environment. I don't want to make it sound like a Byrd is disposable -- that is not the case at all. It's more that the bang-for-the-buck factor is high enough that I'm willing to take chances with one that I wouldn't take with something else.
The steel's fine. Not the best -- and it is not advertised as such -- but perfectly adequate for what a folder is supposed to do, and priced very attractively. These Byrds have changed my expectations of what Chinese manufacturers can produce and have confirmed my opinions about Spyderco.
the test i have seen by bluntruth on youtube shows that it doesnt really hold an edge as well as other steels when cutting thru 2ply cardboard (like 50 feet of it) and that its not good for cutting/whitting down a pressure treated 4X4 but im sure if I need to slice/shread thru someones arm/hand/neck/chest or any other part which comes near me in a hurry, it will do just fine. The only knife i own which has this steel is my byrd crossbill and its the 3rd sharpest knife stock I have owned. (the stainless steel ladybug 3 I just got for a gift for someone just beat it out). In anycase, for my uses... I think it will stand up to what I throw at it.
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im sure no one has ever done that. since its such a knife destroying maneuver. holy crap i must have been sniffing glue!
I'd respond, but I see you've been banned as a troll.
How unsurprising.
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8Cr13MoV is a Chinese stainless steel grade but not listed in GB standard, it is customized by Chinese steel manufactures with reference to AUS-8 produced by a Japanese Aichi steel company, the Rockwell hardness of 8Cr13MoV can reach above 62 HRC, so it is often used to make knife blades.
For more info, you can refer to 8Cr13MoV stainless steel.
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Well, I'd rather avoid Chinese-made anything, though that's difficult to do. I'd prefer Sandvik's 14C28N, as in the Mora Garberg.
I dislike anything from China on principle. If you love Freedom why would you buy a knife made in China. If you don’t care about freedom buy Chinese.
Some of us love freedom more than money. I have been a fan of Spyderco from the early ‘80s, but myself and most people in my knife club were disappointed when Spyderco started making knives in communist China. Benchmade doesn’t. It’s about priorities, principles!
Some of us love freedom more than money. I have been a fan of Spyderco from the early ‘80s, but myself and most people in my knife club were disappointed when Spyderco started making knives in communist China. Benchmade doesn’t. It’s about priorities, principles!
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I like knive throwing... and I have found the Spyderco Tenacious to be one of the best knives to do so. It has 8CR13MoV but whatever they do with it is nothing short of amazing. It is extremely durable much more so than M390 or S90V or S30V knives.. it is on par with M4 from what I can tell - at least in the Tenacious. So whatever Toughness they achieved is outstanding.
Try the Spyder Throwers instead of throwing any folder, please! Or whatever fixed kinda thrower you like if not the SPyders, those are what I have though and they seem good (I don't know knife throwing)