940 comparison: M4 vs s90v???

db_sharply

db_sharply

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Mar 21, 2013
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Seeing as the 940-1 has been out a while now, I'm wondering if anyone has formed opinions of their s90v steel vs possibly their m4 940.
I didn't want to like Benchmade M4 as much as I do, as it isn't stainless. M4 is a tremendous steel and I can't imagine it not meeting my needs, but how does it compare to s90v?
I'm not a 940 guy, so I'll wait until there is a grip or 710 available in s90v.
Thanks,
Darren
 
I've got M4 on my 810, so it's a bit thicker blade. The M4 is MUCH easier to sharpen. Beyond that, blade geometry makes it difficult to tell the difference. I'd say they are close in performance, with M4 being tougher and S90V being more wear resistant.
 
If you are specifically asking the difference between M4 (CPM-M4 to be specific) & S90V by BKC, Benchmade web site can provide additional information.

For CPM-M4, BKC made it HRC of 62-64 compare to 57-58 for S90V. CPM-M4 is designed as a tool steel, it is tougher not brittle, and it is fairly high wear resistance. Only drawback I can think of it is that it doesn't have corrosion resistance than stainless steel. Mind you it wouldn't be much of the problem unless you seriously mistreat M4 like leave it wet where bare metal is exposed.

MFL

(Edit: HRC for S90V per http://www.benchmade.com/images/table_blade_steels.gif HRC 57-58)
 
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For the record, the Benchmade website quotes 59-61HRC as the range for the S90V blade in the 940-1.

IIRC, the M4 940s were all Gold Class knives. I don't recall reading any reports about their cutting performance, which is too bad.
 
JNewell said:
For the record, the Benchmade website quotes 59-61HRC as the range for the S90V blade in the 940-1.

IIRC, the M4 940s were all Gold Class knives. I don't recall reading any reports about their cutting performance, which is too bad.
Click to expand...

BTW, I have looked up on BKC web site and they list it as 57-58.

I think 940-121 was such nicely made Gold Class, no one wanted to spend it to test, I guess. ;) Considering CPM-M4 being high speed tool steel, the blade can have very thin edge and still can withstand multiple cutting tasks.

This is 810 CPM-M4 test in you tube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sevAMUzPh8
 
MobileFireLord said:
BTW, I have looked up on BKC web site and they list it as 57-58.

I think 940-121 was such nicely made Gold Class, no one wanted to spend it to test, I guess. ;) Considering CPM-M4 being high speed tool steel, the blade can have very thin edge and still can withstand multiple cutting tasks.

This is 810 CPM-M4 test in you tube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sevAMUzPh8
Click to expand...

The Benchmade catalog here: http://www.benchmade.com/products/940 shows 59-61, and this was confirmed as the correct range by Benchmade.
 
M4 is easier to sharpen, not quite as wear resistant, very tough, and not super corrosion resistant. While it does not have a lot of corrosion resistance, thus far I don't find it to have issues with corrosion on a folder and I think it has more corrosion resistance than sometimes pictured. It is significantly tougher than S90V and it's a tough knife steel in general. I personally think the toughness makes it a very good candidate for folders seeing usage in which a tough steel is beneficial (for example, the 810 Contego, Adamas folder, or 710 [Adamas was never made in M4, and the 710 only in LEs, but I can dream]).

S90V is more wear resistant, harder to sharpen, has better corrosion resistance (although still not the best). I've come to strongly prefer M390 over S90V, personally.
 
Here's the post from the Benchmade factory forums:

posted January 28, 2014 07:37 AM Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by dj:
quote:
Originally posted by BMK Jason:
Hi all,

Just to clarify, the 940-1 WILL be standard in-line production. It is not a limited production run.

Jason


Can you verify the heat treat rockwell ??



Yup. 59-61 HRC.
Click to expand...
 
I have a new torture test for knife steel - lopping the tops off wild thistle plants along my hiking trail. I'm seeing more and more of them these days.
These plants have very tough stems that are much akin to slicing through jute rope. I slice them in one quick stroke.

My 940-1 with S90V slices through the first 3 like butter, but the razor sharp edge falls off rapidly after that. Still sharp enough to slice meat cleanly but much more pulling force is required on the 20th thistle than the first. To be sure, the performance is much better than I think I'd see out of BM's 154cm or Spyderco's VG-10 but I don't know that the added performance makes up for the tedious final stages to sharpening S90V.

I'm going to carry the Manix 2 in 110V steel next hike and see how it compares.


pnsxyr said:
M4 is easier to sharpen, not quite as wear resistant, very tough, and not super corrosion resistant. While it does not have a lot of corrosion resistance, thus far I don't find it to have issues with corrosion on a folder and I think it has more corrosion resistance than sometimes pictured. It is significantly tougher than S90V and it's a tough knife steel in general. I personally think the toughness makes it a very good candidate for folders seeing usage in which a tough steel is beneficial (for example, the 810 Contego, Adamas folder, or 710 [Adamas was never made in M4, and the 710 only in LEs, but I can dream]).

S90V is more wear resistant, harder to sharpen, has better corrosion resistance (although still not the best). I've come to strongly prefer M390 over S90V, personally.
Click to expand...
 
One thing is for sure, once I work up a burr or wire edge when sharpening S90V, it takes FOREVER to get rid of it. I use diamond, and the only way to fully remove the wire is to strop the bejesus out of it.
 
pnsxyr said:
S90V is more wear resistant, harder to sharpen, has better corrosion resistance (although still not the best). I've come to strongly prefer M390 over S90V, personally.
Click to expand...

Why m390 over s90v? I only have m390 so I'm curious to hear your reasons.
 
99cuts said:
Why m390 over s90v? I only have m390 so I'm curious to hear your reasons.
Click to expand...

Not pnsxyr, but in my case M390 is my preferred blade steel too. I've never had the pleasure (or should I say displeasure) of sharpening S90V but for me M390 sharpens easily - not any more difficult than 154CM or S30V to worry about. With easy sharpening, excellent corrosion resistance, toughness, and durability, M390 lives up to the "Super Premium Stainless Steel" description that Benchmade and others use to describe it.
 
harris2 said:
Not pnsxyr, but in my case M390 is my preferred blade steel too. I've never had the pleasure (or should I say displeasure) of sharpening S90V but for me M390 sharpens easily - not any more difficult than 154CM or S30V to worry about. With easy sharpening, excellent corrosion resistance, toughness, and durability, M390 lives up to the "Super Premium Stainless Steel" description that Benchmade and others use to describe it.
Click to expand...

Sharpening M390 is a treat compared to S90V. I prefer M390 for that reason, and I think it takes a finer edge. Unfortunately, the 940-1 came with S90V, so I guess I'll just have to make do for now :D
 
Nomo4me said:
I have a new torture test for knife steel - lopping the tops off wild thistle plants along my hiking trail. I'm seeing more and more of them these days.
These plants have very tough stems that are much akin to slicing through jute rope. I slice them in one quick stroke.

My 940-1 with S90V slices through the first 3 like butter, but the razor sharp edge falls off rapidly after that. Still sharp enough to slice meat cleanly but much more pulling force is required on the 20th thistle than the first. To be sure, the performance is much better than I think I'd see out of BM's 154cm or Spyderco's VG-10 but I don't know that the added performance makes up for the tedious final stages to sharpening S90V.

I'm going to carry the Manix 2 in 110V steel next hike and see how it compares.
Click to expand...

That's my exact take on S90V. Given M390 has insane wear resistance, good toughness with even thinner edges, ridiculously good corrosion resistance, polishes like a champ, and is IMO, much, much easier to sharpen, I look at M390 as being the better steel for more applications/users and I strongly prefer it to S90V (and ZDP-189). Thus far, I am finding S110V to have insane wear resistance, yet be a good bit easier to sharpen than S90V, which is always a plus.

I don't want to say that I avoid S90V, but I just don't personally feel for me that it's general tendency for slightly greater wear resistance to M390 can compare to the numerous advantages M390 has over it.

I really like how Benchmade has chosen both CPM-M4 and M390 for usage on the Contego. You really can't get much a better steel offering than that! Plus, both those steels really excel in the usage that the Contego will likely see, and thus far my usage with M4 has left me feeling it is a great steel with great wear resistance that can have the living crap beaten out of it and hold up to whatever one can throw at it. I really wish we'd see production runs of these steels on knives like the 710!
 
thanks for sharing your experiences with s90v. I love M4 and ease of sharpening is a major reason. Even when I was new to knives/cutlery it was noticeable. M390 is new to me, the only one I have is with BM 484. I sharpened it recently and didn't enjoy that experience. Sounds like s90v is a whole other territory that I would dislike more than I like.
 
Hiked the trail again tonight - noting with glee the lifeless, horizontal corpse of each Thistle Thug I had slain on hikes earlier this week :cool:

Each night I had used the 940-1 with S90v and each time I'd needed to sharpen afterwords.

Tonight I was wielding the Manix 2 in S110v. It's secondary bevel is much more acute than the 940-1, maybe around 27 degrees inclusive. No matter. The S110v topped about 30 thistles (no I'm not a weirdo - I just hit the ones alongside the trail, and none that have pollinators a polinatin') and was still 99.5% of the scary sharp factory edge it had been before the onset of the slaughter.

My observation is far from empirical, but there's no doubt in my mind that S110v appears far superior to S90v for this particular test.



Nomo4me said:
I have a new torture test for knife steel - lopping the tops off wild thistle plants along my hiking trail. I'm seeing more and more of them these days.
These plants have very tough stems that are much akin to slicing through jute rope. I slice them in one quick stroke.

My 940-1 with S90V slices through the first 3 like butter, but the razor sharp edge falls off rapidly after that. Still sharp enough to slice meat cleanly but much more pulling force is required on the 20th thistle than the first. To be sure, the performance is much better than I think I'd see out of BM's 154cm or Spyderco's VG-10 but I don't know that the added performance makes up for the tedious final stages to sharpening S90V.

I'm going to carry the Manix 2 in 110V steel next hike and see how it compares.
Click to expand...
 
Nomo4me said:
Hiked the trail again tonight - noting with glee the lifeless, horizontal corpse of each Thistle Thug I had slain on hikes earlier this week :cool:

Each night I had used the 940-1 with S90v and each time I'd needed to sharpen afterwords.

Tonight I was wielding the Manix 2 in S110v. It's secondary bevel is much more acute than the 940-1, maybe around 27 degrees inclusive. No matter. The S110v topped about 30 thistles (no I'm not a weirdo - I just hit the ones alongside the trail, and none that have pollinators a polinatin') and was still 99.5% of the scary sharp factory edge it had been before the onset of the slaughter.

My observation is far from empirical, but there's no doubt in my mind that S110v appears far superior to S90v for this particular test.
Click to expand...

I agree that S110V seems to be better than S90V in ease of sharpening and a bit more corrosion resistant. I think I have read someplace that S110V is more time and effort consuming to have HT done. And S110V blade warps after HT?

Thank you for quick test between S110V vs. S90V, but Spyderco bevel geometry and HT differ quite a bit from BKC. It would be ideal to test both steel in same model. I'm just saying.

Mirror polishing S110V is far more pain in the @$$ than S30V for sure.

MFL
 
MobileFireLord said:
Thank you for quick test between S110V vs. S90V, but Spyderco bevel geometry and HT differ quite a bit from BKC. It would be ideal to test both steel in same model. I'm just saying.
Click to expand...

Absolutely true. There are too many variables that significantly affect results.
 
I have the bench made 940 -121 gold class with m4 steel. The only difference i can tell is with use the finish shows wear or has this dirty look. It isn't the blade steel itself though. its the titanium or grey coating finish on it. I don't know why this is but mine looks like it got darker on one side. Also the clip on the gold class 940-121 shows wear over time, It for some reason has these spotted water type marks on the clip. I Want to sell my used one and purchase one of the newer bench made 940 with s90v instead. Will sell it at a loss since it shows signed of use and small dent from being dropped a few times .
 
I think you could probably find someone on this forum or the Benchmade forum with a 940-1 looking to make some sort of a trade in which you may be able to negotiate a better deal than selling your 940-121 outright and then buying a 940-1! :)
 
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