A couple more canister questions

[weo]

Good morning all. It seems as if this is canister season.

I've been reading in other posts how small amounts of what I would have called 'contaminants' don't seem to be that much of an issue, because they burn up and use any oxygen that might be left in the can. I'm trying to mimic a starry night sky in my designs and would like to try using a tiny amount of 15N20 swarf/saw dust from using a hacksaw mixed in with 1084 powder to be the diamonds in the sky. I also recently tried sprinkling some on a piece of 1080 and using my TIG torch to melt these into the bar to see if this makes any cool pattern. One thing I noticed while doing this was some of the swarf burned off instead of melting, and I think this was some of the paint/powder-coating from the hacksaw blade in the sawdust.
My question is: will this paint contamination lead to bad inclusions/welds/pockets in the finished billet or will this just burn off like paper does?
Thanks

 

[Pinoy Knife]

try ball bearings instead ..that way you can have the back ground mostly how you want it and use the bearings as the stars.. i would try a bar of 1084, a rectangular can some 1084 powder (new) and some different size bearings.. id put the bar in first (After cleaning) sprinkle a little powder over it ,place the balls into the powder with tweezers ,add some more powder to keep them in place, add more larger bearings ,and more powder to hold them then close the can up .. can't promise it will turn out perfect the first try .. but based off my years of making damascus that how i would try to do it..
either larger bearings first for large "Planets" or smaller ones to resemble them that are far away.. them small increases in size to resemble those closer..
lots of heat to ensure good welds and forge to shape.. the "Stars" should show up in the clean up and grinding.. the base bar is just there to help arrange everything ..

 

[fitzo]

"Turned pot scrubber" in a canister can make a pretty "starry sky". It's stainless and non-hardening, though, so...

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

The big thing to remember is that tiny things like sawdust and hacksaw shavings will disappear once reduced in forging. Most likely they will disappear in the powder by absorption.
Use things at least 1/16" to 1/8" if you want to see them later on.

Along with stainless steel ball bearings, also try BBs and steel shot.

Another idea would be to use brass balls. They are cheap and come in sizes from half a mm to 5mm on ebay. I may have to try that to see what happens.

 

[weo]

Well here's the result of my first attempt, both with a can and the technique. Original can was 1 1/4" square filled with 1:20 ratio of 15N20 hacksaw savings to 1084 powder and forged down to ~1" x 1/4" bar. Not hardened, sanded to 400 grit and 5-10 second acid dip:

It's definitely a path I'm going to continue for a while. On most of the piece, it looks like a time-lapse night sky shot. I'm not sure how much of that is due to the drawing out I did (probably most of it), or the shape of the pieces originally.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Your edges imply that the billet was not heated high enough and long enough before compressing/hammering. It may also indicate too much reduction in the initial welds.

You will have better results if you get your gal heated up and kiss her gently for a while before tossing her on the bed and going at it hard and heavy - It works the same with making canister damascus.

 

[weo]

Thanks for the diagnosis, Stacy. I was hoping someone would chime in on that. Fortunately my sole focus was on the pattern and learning the nuances of forging canisters was secondary.

too much reduction in the initial welds.

My guess is this, along with perhaps needing one more heat on the edges before starting to draw it out. It's been over a month since I fired up the forge and I did over squish on the second heat.

You will have better results if you get your gal heated up and kiss her gently for a while before tossing her on the bed and going at it hard and heavy

Unfortunately, I have no idea what you are talking about anymore