A defense of thumb safeties.

DocJD, I'm not far behind you, with extensive experience in competitive shooting, marksmanship instructing, and hunting.
What you say is true -- IN A PERFECT WORLD, barring any extraneous factors that happen at random. If you think enough
planning and training will enable you to successfully negotiate every factor in your environment, to include disruptions such
as physical assault or getting shot by aggressors, that's a very pleasant, reassuring delusion. Enjoy. See example below.

While I understand the well trained, thoughtful, and careful use of Glocks and similar pistols, and own such, I'm still
a believer that an added margin of safety is a good thing, *within reason*. A local incident from a few years ago illustrates.

A Physician's Assistant went to the local Forest Service range to practice. Being in a wooded area, without other people around,
he brought his dog along to get some much-needed stimulation and exercise. While walking forward and re-holstering (or otherwise
manipulating?) his Glock, his dog was joyfully frisking and gamboling beside him, delighted to be out with his master. Life happened,
and the dog got tangled up in his feet somehow...
He tripped and shot himself... through the liver.

He drove himself to the local ER, where he managed to live for a few minutes, but couldn't be saved.

You can offer every theory in the world as to how one "would" (should) never be in such a situation due to superior
training, technique and 100% awareness at all times, but the fact is, we are all human and we DON'T have control
of every single factor in our environment at all times -- or at any time. Sure, there are plenty of areas that 20-20
hindsight lets us see how this could easily have been prevented, but this is just one example. There are only about
a billion other factors out there...

Having over 50 years' experience shooting the 1911, plus a great variety of other arms, I believe that if he'd
been well schooled with a 1911, Browning HP or similar, the safety's presence/use very likely would have prevented this.
As I was taught, the safety goes back ON automatically when firing is complete -- just as it comes off during the safest part
of the draw. Add in that one factor, and he'd likely be living happily ever after with his family, instead of being a sad memory.

[Aside: I've always wondered if the dog made it into the car for the ride to the hospital. I sure hope so. I love dogs!]

As far as they go, "muscle memory"/the subconscious mind are wonderful things. Example: I grew up shooting a side-by-side
(double barrel) shotgun from age 10 or so. Every time the lever is opened, it pushes the safety back to the "on" position.
Thus, after loading, in order to fire one must again take off the safety. After entering the Army and serving away from
home for a few years, I took my Dad out for a couple of rounds of skeet. Naturally, we brought our only shotguns -- a pair of
family heirloom SxS's. At this time, I'd say it had been maybe 6-7 years since I'd handled a shotgun. As I was shooting skeet
with it, I became aware that there was a "problem" with the mechanism. The lever didn't seem to be activating the safety
as it should. I was just raising the shotgun and firing, without having to activate the safety -- or so I thought. In examining
it further, I found that the safety was working perfectly -- I just was automatically taking it off when shouldering the gun to fire,
purely subconsciously.

"And that's all I have to say about that." :)
John
:) When I'm around other armed individuals , it's not one's who've carried and used firearms , properly, safely, and frequently over many decades that make me nervous .

Repetition of safe handling does not increase the risk of accidents . Quite the opposite . :cool:

I've tied my shoe / boot laces countless times . Increasing the number of repetitions (once I learned how as a child ) has not resulted in any failures as yet . :p
 
Go with whatever system you will actually practice with and carry.

I used to carry a 1911, but now carry polymer striker designs. I'm fine with carrying either.

The many fine offerings by CZ occasionally tempt me to buy another single action pistol with a thumb safety. ;)
 
I'm more concerned about the safety getting engaged at the wrong time. During a struggle? by "accident"? I have been carrying/shooting Glocks for 20+ years and is the only type I'll carry. That just works for me and I'm 100% comfortable with my skills/muscle memory/conditioned reflexes.
Finger only goes inside trigger guard when conditions are met
 
Guns launch bullets, bullets punch holes in things. I've seen more accidents from people counting on a safety to save them than with people just being safe.
A safety won't stop stupid.
Finger off trigger, safe direction, don't point it at shit you don't want to put a hole in.
Rules, when you have a gun in your hand, pay attention, I reholster more than a few times every day, PAY ATTENTION, ever time, all the time, or get a safety for your safety, because one is none and two is one.
Or, leave it at home so you don't leave your finger on the trigger and shoot yourself in the ass, or liver.
Good luck,
 
A safety won't stop stupid.

Ain't it the truth. I'm of the opinion that safeties have the potential to actually encourage stupid, since stupid automatically assumes that mechanical intervention is an excuse to not engage in logical thinking and basic caution.

It's simply not possible to Simon-proof things.
 
I'm good with or without the safety.
Most issues can be prevented with choosing a good/proper holster, familiarity with one's equipment, regular training/practice and remaining alert to the basics of gun safety.
 
Israeli carry........ no possibility of a negligent discharge. Also, you can practice quick draw, dry firing, and reholstering as much as you want.
 
The ultimate thumb safety.
5vFip98.jpg
 
I have EDC'd nothing but Glocks for probably the last 20 years or so and have never had a problem. And there's always a chambered round unless I'm headed to the range, or about to let someone unfamiliar with Glocks hold it.

The answer is simple: NEVER put your finger on the trigger unless you want to shoot something.
 
I think it all comes down to personal preferences and training. Practicing basic manipulations draw/holster in a safe manner increase proficiency with your particular firearm and helps to avoid costly mistakes.
For me personally, my self-defense gun is a Glock, I like its no manual safety point-and-shoot simplicity. When I compete, my main gun is CZ Tactical Sport Orange with a very light 2 lb. single action trigger, and large thumb safety, never had any issues with it. So whether it thumb safety or not, practice will help a lot.
 
I have to unholster and reholster at least 2 times per day when working. I work in a location where I have to leave the firearm in a safe in the vehicle.

My state mandates that the pistol must be left unloaded, and secured.

My typical edc has a thumb safety...

My main house gun, or more serious cary piece does not.

I have Glock, S&W shield with manual safety, and .357 revolvers.

I have seen more than one officer fire a duty weapon trying to reholster it.

One friend discharged into the floor of his squad car while trying to simultaneously get in his quad car and back away from a person wielding a shotgun and pointing it at him. The person was attempting suicide by cop, and there were already several officers engages. Friend had his gun drawn and had taken position behind his vehicle when he was ordered back....while the shotgun wielder popped up in the window and pointed the shot gun. Problem was trying to get seated, vehicle in great and back up while also attempting to holster his sidearm while also seeing the shotgun suddenly poke out the window at him.

Im not opposed to manual safeties.

I have guns with, guns without.
 
I don’t own a 1911, but my Father has one and I’ve trained with it a couple of times before the pandemic clusterf*** (haven’t been able to train since then unfortunately). Here are my two cents.

If you have one on your primary sidearm, you gotta train with it and commit to it. You need to incorporate the safety disengagement into your drawstroke until it becomes autopilot, then reengage safety (FINGER OFF TRIGGER) upon reholstering. I wouldn’t recommend alternating between a pistol with a thumb safety and one without. Either train with one or stay away from them.
 
I'm not really concerned about it, but I don't practice holstering much.

I have two striker pistols and one with a safety. I'm actually swapping the standard safety on the Beretta PX4 to the low pro decocker.

However, the Beretta is not a carry gun, it's more of a range toy.
 
I'm not really concerned about it, but I don't practice holstering much.

I have two striker pistols and one with a safety. I'm actually swapping the standard safety on the Beretta PX4 to the low pro decocker.

However, the Beretta is not a carry gun, it's more of a range toy.
Switching to decocker-only? Nice. Always thought Beretta safeties were awkwardly positioned. I vastly prefer 1911 safeties. The heavy DA trigger should prevent any accidental discharges anyway.
 
Switching to decocker-only? Nice. Always thought Beretta safeties were awkwardly positioned. I vastly prefer 1911 safeties. The heavy DA trigger should prevent any accidental discharges anyway.


Yes, decocker only. The standard safety/decocker really digs into your hand when racking the slide.

My carry guns are a SIG P365 SAS and Steyr M9-A1. They both have loaded chamber indicators. However, I rely on neither.

I am exceedingly cautious with my guns after an accident about ten years ago. There are very few things in life I can tell you for certain. One of them is alcohol/drugs and guns don't mix. Blew a hole through my couch about 3 inches from my leg one night about 15 years ago fiddling around while drunk. No safety can prevent stupidity. I don't drink anymore, haven't had a drop in over 4 years.
 
Congrats on the 4 years sober man. The last time I got blind drunk was late last year. Told myself I’ll never let that happen again. I still drink wine from time to time, but only with good company and never to the point of intoxication. Never got ‘stupid drunk’ since. As someone who strives to be a warrior-poet, I can’t really defend my keep if I’m not 100% in control of my faculties.
 
Congrats on the 4 years sober man. The last time I got blind drunk was late last year. Told myself I’ll never let that happen again. I still drink wine from time to time, but only with good company and never to the point of intoxication. Never got ‘stupid drunk’ since. As someone who strives to be a warrior-poet, I can’t really defend my keep if I’m not 100% in control of my faculties.

That and in 2016 I was diagnosed with stage 4 liver failure. Caused by being on Prednisone since age 11 as due to a childhood brain tumor and surgery, I no longer produce most hormones. The replacement hormones, especially Prednisone. 6/2018 I had a liver transplant. I was by far the youngest patient on the floor.

Anyway, I'm 41 and have a liver from a 22 year old so I'm not going to ruin it.
 
Back
Top