A little help please with this Schrade Walden #825 ?.

Hal, the Craftsman example with the "pat. pending" etch got me to wondering... What exactly was the patent for? I kinda figured "Razor Blade Stainless" was just another way to say 440A while making it sound extra special as in "Schrade+".

Did Schrade actually patent some new kind of ground-breaking steel here? Pretty cool if they did.
 
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Dave, I think it was the same stainless steel, but referring to the revolutionary "Razor Blade" hand ground finish where they changed the bevel on the blade. You saw it on the early Schrade Walden and Schrade NY USA Uncle Henry knives too. You can see it well, and it was before they added the SCHRADE+, but marked stainless on each blade. Still, I have a few SCHRADE+ UH knives with the grind. Open Stock knives with stainless blades were not usually marked with a +, but rather marked with stainless on the blades and on the shield, even if it was not specifically a "Razor Blade Stainless" knife. True to form, as time passed, markings were less consistent.

To be honest, I can't see how they could patent the blade grind, so I'd like to see what the patent actually covered. Maybe Michael has some patent info on this? My take on this is pretty much what I've come to believe through reading here, and observing a whole bunch of Schrade knives made in the 60's and 70's.

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I don't know what the patent application was for. It could either have been a reference to the "Razor Blade Stainless" trademark application (#72184925, filed 01/20/1964 and issued 03/01/1966) or to an actual patent that was rejected by USPTO as "obvious to those versed in the art" of knife manufacture.
 
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A picture of an 825SS sold a few years ago. These ones are pretty rare. I wanted it but did not manage to score it. It is a little different etch than the catalogs and fliers and does not appear to have the PAT PENDING, though hard to tell. It is early, as it has threaded bolsters.

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A little more about the process. There are different versions of this card, which came in the plastic tubes. I have some with no zip code shown, and state there is a US and foreign PATENT PENDING.

These knives do get hair popping sharp with a little stropping.
 
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Thanks for trying to answer this Hal and Michael.

That's just what I was wondering: Was the patent application more of a trademark application for the name "Razor Blade Stainless" as opposed to a new innovation in knife making?

"Obvious to those versed in the art" seems to be the official phrase I was reaching for because to me I don't see anything too revolutionary about these fine knives but maybe it was just the final bevel or grind they were trying to patent.

I love the ads for these. I always got a chuckle out of them. Dude looks pretty happy shaving with his stockman.
 
but my only has two blades and on the back of the one reads clearly 825?

But what btkyou? Still need more information? Is yours just like the one in my picture with the three knives? Mine has 825 on the back of the tang too, both of the top ones do. Is there a K77 engraved shield? That was a Norm Thompson number no one has ever explained. Different lettering for the etch right? Don't make too much out of a Schrade with something a little on the unexplainable side with stamps or etches. It is what they are famous for 40 years later. Back then it was simply a serpentine jack knife with two blades instead of a stockman with three. The stampings and etches didn't meat squat. :p
 
i haven't found any info on this yet that pat. pend. or even seen one and it does have the 825 on back. it looks like the one that reads razor blade stainless u have but with 2 blades and that PAT. PEND. UNDER IT. It looks like the one in the ad you put up? 100% the same. word to word. ( I think) but in the ad it doesn't have the k-77. Just food for your thoughts? and i only paid 25 cents for it. and it is in mint cond.
 
i haven't found any info on this yet that pat. pend. or even seen one and it does have the 825 on back. it looks like the one that reads razor blade stainless u have but with 2 blades and that PAT. PEND. UNDER IT. It looks like the one in the ad you put up? 100% the same. word to word. ( I think) but in the ad it doesn't have the k-77. Just food for your thoughts? and i only paid 25 cents for it. and it is in mint cond.

Your's does have the K-77, right? K-77 was Norm Thompson's number for this 2 blade version only. The 825 is the Schrade pattern number (identical master blades), and was also used on the three blade version. The picture in the ad is just a drawing. No K-77 means the artist did not draw it.

Was it a garage sale find? Does it have the threaded bolsters? I would imagine it does. Sure would like to see a picture of it.

Pretty good find for a quarter I'd say. Congrats! Always interesting when a knife goes unused for over 40 years. Good luck in your search to find information on this knife. When you do, please share it on the forum. :)
 
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look close to the knife on the blade where it reads razor blade stainless and below if you look close you see PAT. PEND. It is the same one i have. And the ad to buy the knife that you posted Norm Thompson the sharpest knife you will ever used or money refunded. then there is a circler reading look at where it reads dress a deer-or just whittle on the left of that on that blade you can see PAT. PEND. it starts by the word DRESS. From what i understand this could be the knife from the ad it self. look back on quote #5 you posted it. What do you think it is worth if it is the protype in the ad?
 
Ad from the knife itself? Ahem! :rolleyes: Might have a hard time setting the hook on that story... it's just a drawing in the ad. At any rate, it is one of the first ones made for sure. I'm not much on prototype theories. It is a very nice collectible plastic handled knife. It's worth what you can get for it. :D
 
The knife in the advertisement is not a photograph of a "prototype", it is a drawing, a graphic artist's rendition of the knife. A sample of the knife may have been sent to Norm Thompson for changes and for approval, but unless you have a knife with provinance (a tag from the maker, a photo of the exact knife sent, a knife with coded sample markings etched on the blade, letter from the maker or original owner), you most likely have a knife from the special factory order production for Norm Thompson which he sold through those magazine ads.

It is a common mistake to call a sample a prototype. Most SFOs did not require a prototype since they were based upon previous production patterns. Altered production pieces with added features requested would be sent to a customer , then usually returned to the factory as a "go-by" for the production pieces. At this time, it is unknown just how many were produced for that customer. It could well be one of a gross (dozen-dozen = 144) or more likely one of one thousand or more.

N.T. bought several patterns from Schrade Walden for special promotions, both fixed blades and folders. Yours dates probably to 1964-65. We have researched a fixed blade knife, the 165OT "SHIKARI" which dates to 1966-67. They were serialized, but we still don't know the exact quantity produced or the exact time length of production.
 
Imperial filed for a process patent on the "razor blade stainless" blades and the sharpening process (double bevel) in 1964, but it was, after several appeals, officially denied in June of 1967. They were then required to remove the "Pat. Pend." etch and the "Patent Applied For" tang stamp from their blades.
They did, however, retain a design patent and trademark on the name itself, so those were allowed to stay.

Eric
 
the 825 is a 3 blade slim premium stockman. see sticky "open for viewing" under open stock page 1. to my eye the 897UH, S/W 825 and Schrade 825 are all the "same" knife. i also have a 4th "identical" knife:Schrade/Walden/N.Y. U.S.A./Stainless with no pattern # and shield Keen Kutter.
so i guess yours is an 826, tho i have not seen one of those before. roland
 
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