A quest for my ideal Stockman

Buzz, I like that Buck.

How can one determine if any particular 301 was made by Camillus?

The Camillus-manufactured Bucks 301's will have a traditional stockman blade configuration, flat ground blades, say Buck - 301- U.S.A. on the tang stamp, have a long pull nail nick on the clip blade, swedge on the clip blade, and have visible pivot pins showing through the bolsters. If you can't see the pivot pins, it could be a Schrade.
 
That swedge in front of the long pull, and starting after the down-turn of the clip is pure Camillus.
Here is a Schrade made by Camillus with the same clip and swedge.

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Thanks, Buzz. Of all the Uncle Henrys I've got (14, I think?), this Camillus built one is the one I carry.
 
In my quest I have been using several stockman knives. All my knives are users by the way.

Tidioute Calf Roper: I believe it is a 2017. 3.4” closed, carbon steel blades, ebony covers. This is a very well-proportioned knife. The flat ground blade shapes are proportioned very nicely in my opinion, though I would prefer a pen instead of a spey blade. The sheepfoot blade extended out too far so I lowered spey blade a little and the sheepfoot a bit more. The carbon steel blades are fine with me except when I use them for food prep, I prefer stainless steel. The springs are a bit weak but not excessively so. The covers are rounded as well as the ends making it a pleasure to hold and use and makes it pocket friendly. The exposed hinge end of the closed blades has sharp corners making it not so pleasant to grip. There are no stylistic embellishments, so it does not look fancy which I like very much. Overall I like this knife very much.

Queen Stockman: not sure what year but probably made not long before closing, I bought it several months after Queen Cutlery closed. 4” closed, stainless steel blades, rosewood covers. Also well proportioned blades, flat ground, a bit longer than the Tidioute, which is helpful for food prep. The spey and sheepfoot could be lowered a little but I have not done that yet. I did find a few tiny rust spots on the stainless steel blades. The springs are a bit weak but not excessively so. As with the Tidioute I like the simple styling. The exposed hinge end of the closed blades has sharp corners making it not so pleasant to grip. The final grinding of the frame was performed very poorly, like maybe someone was learning how to do that job. The ends are not a smooth transition from the radius to the back or front edge of the frame and are lopsided. The back has some low areas, not a smooth flowing surface from end to end. Functionally it works well, the fit & finish is embarrassing for such a company so highly regarded as Queen, though I have read a number of accounts of this type of problems in the last few years they were in business.

Case 6347 Stockman: 3 7/8” closed, stainless steel blades, 3 springs, amber peach seed covers. The hollow ground blades are all thinner than the other knives but due to the 3 spring arrangement they are not bent. My guess is that even though they are thinner, under hard use they would perform well because they are not bent. The springs have a nice strength, not too little or too much. The blades appear to have been tumble polished quite a bit so the exposed hinge end of the closed blades do not have sharp corners and is much more pleasant to hold than the Tidioute or Queen. I am a sucker for the Case amber peach seed covers. This would likely be my favorite if the blades were flat ground.

Camillus 711 Yello-Jaket Stockman: 3 7/8” closed, stainless steel blades, yellow Delrin covers. This arrived just yesterday but already I am loving it. Not sure how old but it is NOS. Fit & finish is better than I expected. As with the others the blade shapes are well proportioned. (I guess I am mostly thinking of the clip blades, I do not like the Turkish clip, looks like it has already been sharpened 1000 times.) One difference from all the others is that the spey and sheepfoot blades are tucked in tightly. The sheepfoot just barely peaks above the clip when closed. This is my first knife with a nail slot on the clip, it works very well though if making a slot it should have a rough surface for striking a match on! Another difference is that the blades are all a little thicker than any of the other knives. The blades are bent just right so there is no blade rub, but not much spare between them either. I am extremely impressed with this knife. It may well become my nearly ideal favorite most carried knife. Such a shame Camillus is out of business.

Status of my quest:

I carried the Case for a while and thought it would become my EDC except I realized that I really like flat grind blades. Maybe I am too picky but when cutting an apple the hollow grind will not cut straight and that just annoys me. The Tidioute is so close to ideal, I could accept the shorter blade but I like stainless steel for food prep. The Queen is also very close but the poor finish grinding shows a lack of pride in workmanship and sours me on it even though overall it is a good knife. At this point (just one day of use) I think the Camillus will be my EDC. But I have said that sort of thing before only to then get a new knife….

So I will finish with one question, do all Case stockman knives have hollow ground blades? The Case 6347 with flat ground blades would steal my heart!

Sorry for such a long post. You folks mostly know all that I have just describe. I guess I am processing my own thoughts.

Might be a never ending quest………..
Nice review. Thanks for taking the time to write that out.
 
So I will finish with one question, do all Case stockman knives have hollow ground blades? The Case 6347 with flat ground blades would steal my heart!

Maybe somebody can help me out here, but isn’t the Case Sowbelly Stockman flat ground? It does have the sheepsfoot hump, but other than one caveat, it is superlative knife. Higher quality than your average Case, as the Bose designs often are.
 
My ideal stockman has to be THIN as it has to disappear in dress pants during the week. The Case 32 is actually much thinner than the 18 pattern - here’s one of my fave’s...

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For weekends, my fave stockmen are the older 47’s ...

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That swedge in front of the long pull, and starting after the down-turn of the clip is pure Camillus.
Here is a Schrade made by Camillus with the same clip and swedge.

tL4BLrv.jpg
The knife shown in post #63, is not a Schrade made or sold knife!
The "S.C.C. 886UH" was made by Camillus for, and sold only through a large Chain Store. It was also sold for less $$ then the Schrade made 885UH.

The Schrade made 885UH knife, has 3 pins in the handle.
medium

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Based on some input here I bought a Case Sowbelly. This is a very well made knife. Fit & finish is very good. Blade spring force is a great balance between too strong & too light. All three blades are flat ground.

My question is why the sowbelly shape? Is it aesthetics or is there a design function?

The opened spey blade is aligned with that end of the frame so it is at an unusual angle when holding the knife. Is that angle helpful for some function? Or simply a result of shaping the frame for aesthetic reasons?
 
Craig, I think it's a little of both. The serpentine frame shape has always been comfortable and popular, and the sowbelly is just an exaggerated serpentine. The tightly curved belly at the end of the spey blade is what normally gets used for either slicing or scraping, and the downward angle of the blade in the frame puts that part right in the "strike zone."
 
The 6347 was my first Case knife. 7-dot 1970 with red bone handles and nickle silver liners. Carried it for all of 10 minutes before I put it away for safe keeping. Still have it--along with many '47 siblings.

I was shocked when I picked up a new one in 1993 with 3 backsprings. I think that was a low point for me and the '47 pattern. I was upset enough about it that I wrote a long letter to the production manager Bob Scudder at Case just after they were bought by Zippo. Actually received a phone call from Bob and we had a great discussion about some of the plans Zippo had for Case.

Not trying to drive traffic away from Blade Forums, but I posted the letter here on All About Pocket Knives about 10 years ago.
I just got one of those 3 spring 6347 . I'm not liking it at all . Very gritty action . No isolation between the springs is what I believe the reason is . Did you have the same problem with the 3 spring version ?
 
I have carried a pocket knife since about 4th grade, 50 some years ago. My first is a little jack that I bought from Sears. That is my letter opener at my desk.

After a number of different knives over the years I am liking the Stockman pattern for EDC.

Case has an amazing variety of Stockman patterns. I like the rounded ends as a more pocket friendly shape and nicer on the hands. The clip blade where the nail nick is farther out on the blade than the clip break point on the back edge (is that a muskrat blade?) does not look right to me, looks fragile. Case has both clip blade styles (conventional with the nail nick inboard of the clip and muskrat). I bought two Case Stockman knives, one with rounded ends & muskrat clip, and one with squared ends & conventional clip.

Then I found a Case with rounded ends & conventional clip. When I received it I was surprised to see that the sheepfoot and spey blades do not share a common spring but each have their own spring on different layers. With all other Stockman knives that I have seen, those two blades are angled so they fit into the same layer and use the same spring. This Case has thinner blades and they are not angled.

I am also surprised that the spring strength on these two separate narrower springs seems to be greater than the wider single springs on other Stockman.

I guess I am just curious about what is known about those two configurations. Historical background? Is that a Case only configuration? Are there any good or bad aspects of either configuration?
Lots of good info here. Thank you all.

For you folk that do not like 3 spring Stockman knives, why is that? I am learning as I explore here.

I have 2 Tidioute Calf Ropers, 3.5" closed with 2 springs. Both of them have a weak spring for the sheepfoot and spey blades. The same for a Queen. And several Cases.

The Case with 3 springs has a noticeably stronger spring, though I would not say it is very strong. The sheepfoot and spey blades are thinner at the hinge than a common spring arrangement but they do not feel flexible. I would think that since those blades are not bent or asymmetricaly tapered in order to overlap they would tend to be more stable during hard use.

It does seem as if the 2 spring configuration is slighty narrower overall.
The Case 3 spring I just got is really gritty in the action . Not liking it at all . Maybe I just got a dud
 
In my quest I have been using several stockman knives. All my knives are users by the way.

Tidioute Calf Roper: I believe it is a 2017. 3.4” closed, carbon steel blades, ebony covers. This is a very well-proportioned knife. The flat ground blade shapes are proportioned very nicely in my opinion, though I would prefer a pen instead of a spey blade. The sheepfoot blade extended out too far so I lowered spey blade a little and the sheepfoot a bit more. The carbon steel blades are fine with me except when I use them for food prep, I prefer stainless steel. The springs are a bit weak but not excessively so. The covers are rounded as well as the ends making it a pleasure to hold and use and makes it pocket friendly. The exposed hinge end of the closed blades has sharp corners making it not so pleasant to grip. There are no stylistic embellishments, so it does not look fancy which I like very much. Overall I like this knife very much.

Queen Stockman: not sure what year but probably made not long before closing, I bought it several months after Queen Cutlery closed. 4” closed, stainless steel blades, rosewood covers. Also well proportioned blades, flat ground, a bit longer than the Tidioute, which is helpful for food prep. The spey and sheepfoot could be lowered a little but I have not done that yet. I did find a few tiny rust spots on the stainless steel blades. The springs are a bit weak but not excessively so. As with the Tidioute I like the simple styling. The exposed hinge end of the closed blades has sharp corners making it not so pleasant to grip. The final grinding of the frame was performed very poorly, like maybe someone was learning how to do that job. The ends are not a smooth transition from the radius to the back or front edge of the frame and are lopsided. The back has some low areas, not a smooth flowing surface from end to end. Functionally it works well, the fit & finish is embarrassing for such a company so highly regarded as Queen, though I have read a number of accounts of this type of problems in the last few years they were in business.

Case 6347 Stockman: 3 7/8” closed, stainless steel blades, 3 springs, amber peach seed covers. The hollow ground blades are all thinner than the other knives but due to the 3 spring arrangement they are not bent. My guess is that even though they are thinner, under hard use they would perform well because they are not bent. The springs have a nice strength, not too little or too much. The blades appear to have been tumble polished quite a bit so the exposed hinge end of the closed blades do not have sharp corners and is much more pleasant to hold than the Tidioute or Queen. I am a sucker for the Case amber peach seed covers. This would likely be my favorite if the blades were flat ground.

Camillus 711 Yello-Jaket Stockman: 3 7/8” closed, stainless steel blades, yellow Delrin covers. This arrived just yesterday but already I am loving it. Not sure how old but it is NOS. Fit & finish is better than I expected. As with the others the blade shapes are well proportioned. (I guess I am mostly thinking of the clip blades, I do not like the Turkish clip, looks like it has already been sharpened 1000 times.) One difference from all the others is that the spey and sheepfoot blades are tucked in tightly. The sheepfoot just barely peaks above the clip when closed. This is my first knife with a nail slot on the clip, it works very well though if making a slot it should have a rough surface for striking a match on! Another difference is that the blades are all a little thicker than any of the other knives. The blades are bent just right so there is no blade rub, but not much spare between them either. I am extremely impressed with this knife. It may well become my nearly ideal favorite most carried knife. Such a shame Camillus is out of business.

Status of my quest:

I carried the Case for a while and thought it would become my EDC except I realized that I really like flat grind blades. Maybe I am too picky but when cutting an apple the hollow grind will not cut straight and that just annoys me. The Tidioute is so close to ideal, I could accept the shorter blade but I like stainless steel for food prep. The Queen is also very close but the poor finish grinding shows a lack of pride in workmanship and sours me on it even though overall it is a good knife. At this point (just one day of use) I think the Camillus will be my EDC. But I have said that sort of thing before only to then get a new knife….

So I will finish with one question, do all Case stockman knives have hollow ground blades? The Case 6347 with flat ground blades would steal my heart!

Sorry for such a long post. You folks mostly know all that I have just describe. I guess I am processing my own thoughts.

Might be a never ending quest………..
Craig , does your 6347 three spring have a gritty action ?
 
I just got one of those 3 spring 6347 . I'm not liking it at all . Very gritty action . No isolation between the springs is what I believe the reason is . Did you have the same problem with the 3 spring version ?

It's been quite a few years since I parted ways with that knife, but I don't recall grittiness. I was more disappointment by the shoddy workmanship and general crudeness of the knife.

Three-spring whittlers have been made for more than a 100 years with three backsprings sandwiched together without liners, so I don't think there is a design flaw involved. More likely the grit from grinding and polishing wasn't flushed.
 
I have three of these, one of them being a "Case Select". All three are just wonderful knives, great walk/talk, no grittiness at all. No noticeable gaps, everything smooth and sleek. The three springs and thinner blades make them better slicers, IMO. I compared them to an Old Timer 8OT, and the Case is slightly slimmer than the OT. This knife is a close second to my favorite, which is the sowbelly.

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