A2 Steel Update

Hold on while i get my testicals off the floor.Ok, this is bad news for sure.This sucks; I have a user trailmaster in carbon v and a recon scout as well,i cannot see supplimenting them with 4034 thats for sure.Shoulda maybe went with 5160 or back to 01 or sk5.....
 
CS should have Lionsteel make Trailmasters, Recon Scouts, etc. for them out of Sliepner. That would be nice!
 
4034 to me is a shocker. Just thought of it, they should use 52100; its already being used in the drop forged knives, and the drop forged survivalist is an amazing knife for the price.
 
I didn't want to mention it, but it's been going through my head for a couple of days. That Master Cutlery M Tech 151 Trailmaster knock-off was 440A, then switched to 420 a couple of years ago. It's not a good look when knock offs are creeping up to one of your flagship models in terms of steel choice :\.
 
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I wasn't going to buy an A2 CS fixed blade (I hardly camp/hike anymore) but as a CS knife fan, this stinks. I had to look up 4034 steel. Bleh.

I agree with everyone else. SK5 or something else would have made more sense.

Nevertheless, I will continue to enjoy my Ultimate Hunter and Recon 1 folders.
 
3cr13mov at least has some Vanadium, 4043 is just 0.5% carbon and around 14% Chromium...

You are misunderstanding the Chinese steel nomenclature.
"MoV" means that there might be some molybdenum and there might be some vanadium. There is no requirement that those elements be there. And if they are, there are no controls over the amounts.


It seems like it’s similar to 420j2 or 3cr13mov.

If it were even 420HC it wouldn't be this bad. 420HC has 0.3% vanadium, and a little vanadium goes a long way. 4034 has none. It's crap. They're shooting themselves in the foot. I don't know what they're thinking.

Since there is no actual industry specification for "420HC" the composition will vary depending non the source of the steeel.
420HC might have Vanadium in it, but it might not. It depends on the source.
Latrobe 420HC contains .3% Vanadium. A lot of other mills don't add Vanadium.

Here's a data sheet from Allegheny Technologies, a major US mill. Their version of 420HC has no Vanadium, but might contain some nickel (note the asterisks and the note below the table. Nominal Carbon content is 0.44%):
https://www.atimetals.com/Products/.../ati_410_420_425_mod_440a_440c_tds_en1_v2.pdf
upload_2020-8-7_17-8-50.png

Here's a product data sheet from ThyssenKrupp. One of the alloys covered is 4034
https://app.aws.org/mwf/attachments/1/56901/nirosta-und-thermax-GB.pdf
upload_2020-8-7_17-1-41.png
upload_2020-8-7_17-2-22.png

So, at the end of the day, Cold Steel is essentially using 420HC purchased from ThyssenKrupp as 4034.

I agree with the other comments. 420HC is quite a difference from A2, O1, or Carbon V.
And for a large tough knife, SK5 would be a lot better.
 
Let's see; no more catalogs, no anniversary offerings or celebration, and now junk steel. Perhaps no more cold steel?

Look at the bright side. With this change cold steel products will perfectly match their marketing. A perfect fit for sales through the local gas station. I guess they just couldn't bother to get their hands on 5160, which would have been a good fit for these larger knives; so they went with junk stainless instead.

I am not even a steel snob, I just hate heavy fixed blades that fold like soggy noodles.

n2s
 
I think it’s mostly just what their manufacturer can get. This is what happens when you don’t make your own product. You are at the mercy of your vendor when it comes to product quality. When CS “tried” twice to get “A2”, it’s probably some version of “A2-ish equivalent” that they are getting. They could’ve moved to another vendor that uses other steel, perhaps they just chose not to. This just smell cost-saving to me.

I suspect this is what happened to XHP too, other companies are producing XHP knives just fine(e.g. Spyderco, CRKT, SOG), why is CS the only company having trouble getting it? It’s probably just CS’s vendors not bothering to get more XHP and want to reduce their cost, perhaps because they are producing more S35VN knives and want to streamline their production.

It also explains why CS has inconsistent quality across different models, some are crap and some has great F&F.
 
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You are misunderstanding the Chinese steel nomenclature.
"MoV" means that there might be some molybdenum and there might be some vanadium. There is no requirement that those elements be there. And if they are, there are no controls over the amounts.






Since there is no actual industry specification for "420HC" the composition will vary depending non the source of the steeel.
420HC might have Vanadium in it, but it might not. It depends on the source.
Latrobe 420HC contains .3% Vanadium. A lot of other mills don't add Vanadium.

Here's a data sheet from Allegheny Technologies, a major US mill. Their version of 420HC has no Vanadium, but might contain some nickel (note the asterisks and the note below the table. Nominal Carbon content is 0.44%):
https://www.atimetals.com/Products/.../ati_410_420_425_mod_440a_440c_tds_en1_v2.pdf
View attachment 1393989

Here's a product data sheet from ThyssenKrupp. One of the alloys covered is 4034
https://app.aws.org/mwf/attachments/1/56901/nirosta-und-thermax-GB.pdf
View attachment 1393980
View attachment 1393984

So, at the end of the day, Cold Steel is essentially using 420HC purchased from ThyssenKrupp as 4034.

I agree with the other comments. 420HC is quite a difference from A2, O1, or Carbon V.
And for a large tough knife, SK5 would be a lot better.

Thanks for that data, makes sense.
 
4034 should be fairly similar to 420hc, it's cleaner in the sense it has much less there, but the lack of vanadium is unfortunate...
for a hard use knife, it should be great since its tough... but the problem will be edge retention

CS would be waaaay better off going 14c28n -> also stainless, tough, and much much better edge retention (and also possible to keep costs down like 4034)

(and I agree with other comments, if they wanted to use a non-stainless steel, the best choice is 52100, or sk5 for toughness)
 
They use 4116 already, looks very similar to 4034. In a budget knife it's ok, I have a few of CS version of the kbar in 4116. Decent knife for 30 bucks. But there are much better steels that are cheaper
 
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