Acute edge vs Obtuse edge

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Mar 8, 2011
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What are the advantages and disadvantages of an acute edge 30 degrees or less vs an edge that is more obtuse (40 and up)?. Do blades with acute edges require frequent sharpening?. Lastly does the hardness of the steel matter in what type of edge it should have i.e are softer steels better off with more obtuse edges than harder steels or should it be the other way around??
Fez
 
depends.

No edge should be over 40 degrees.
Even for a machete used for chopping wood?

If a thin edge requires more frequent sharpening, it's only because the edge rolls or chips more easily. In any case, I've found a 20 degree edge to be more than satisfactory given that I can split hair with the resulting edge.

A harder steel can take a thinner edge, but I wouldn't whittle wood with such an edge. I suppose it depends on what you're doing with the knife. I know 15 degrees per side is fine on cardboard. I would only go for less with a decent kitchen knife.
 
Even for a machete used for chopping wood?

If a thin edge requires more frequent sharpening, it's only because the edge rolls or chips more easily. In any case, I've found a 20 degree edge to be more than satisfactory given that I can split hair with the resulting edge.

A harder steel can take a thinner edge, but I wouldn't whittle wood with such an edge. I suppose it depends on what you're doing with the knife. I know 15 degrees per side is fine on cardboard. I would only go for less with a decent kitchen knife.

Yes, my machetes are thinner than 40. Hard to say exactly since they are convexed. Even my Axes are not 40+. And I can whittle wood just fine with a sub-30 degree edge.
Basically you need to adjust the edge to the steel and the usage.

General rule of thumb: thinner is better.
 
Yes, my machetes are thinner than 40. Hard to say exactly since they are convexed. Even my Axes are not 40+. And I can whittle wood just fine with a sub-30 degree edge.
Basically you need to adjust the edge to the steel and the usage.

General rule of thumb: thinner is better.
Doesn't that strictly depend on the steel, the intended use, and the end user?

I know my coworkers use cheap, soft steel, and I find the need for resharpening is quite frequent, plus some actually complain that they cut themselves every time I sharpen their knives. So I try to stick with more obtuse edges in their case. I just feel the standard SAK steel wouldn't be so horribly rolled with a 25 degree per side edge.
 
Doesn't that strictly depend on the steel, the intended use, and the end user?

I know my coworkers use cheap, soft steel, and I find the need for resharpening is quite frequent, plus some actually complain that they cut themselves every time I sharpen their knives. So I try to stick with more obtuse edges in their case. I just feel the standard SAK steel wouldn't be so horribly rolled with a 25 degree per side edge.

I think I said that.
Basically you need to adjust the edge to the steel and the usage.

I don't consider the preferences of dull knife lovers who don't know how to use a tool and only own bottom quality knives when deciding how to sharpen my stuff.
 
rat you'r talking about 40°/side while the op was 90% sure talking about 40° inclusive. ie 20°/side.

at least i hope, axes below 20°/side whould be fun and considering 60° inclusive thin is kinda fun too.
 
Since I use knives for cutting, and hatchets/axes for chopping, I sharpen my knives to 10 degrees per side (20 inclusive) for high end steels like M-4, and 15 degrees per side (30 inclusive) for mid-level steels.
 
Thanks for the help guys i have two knives an endura with a vg-10 blade and a kershaw od-1 with a 14c28n blade they both seem to work better with a 30 degree edge. I couldnt get them as sharp with a 40 degree edge however my cheapo knife with an 8cr13mov blade gets razor sharp with just a 40 degree edge. I guess the softer the steel a more obtuse edge will perform just fine.
 
Thanks for the help guys i have two knives an endura with a vg-10 blade and a kershaw od-1 with a 14c28n blade they both seem to work better with a 30 degree edge. I couldnt get them as sharp with a 40 degree edge however my cheapo knife with an 8cr13mov blade gets razor sharp with just a 40 degree edge. I guess the softer the steel a more obtuse edge will perform just fine.

My 40 degree edges on VG-10 and S30V will whittle hair.
 
What are the advantages and disadvantages of an acute edge 30 degrees or less vs an edge that is more obtuse (40 and up)?. Do blades with acute edges require frequent sharpening?. Lastly does the hardness of the steel matter in what type of edge it should have i.e are softer steels better off with more obtuse edges than harder steels or should it be the other way around??
Fez

What are the advantages and disadvantages of an acute edge 30 degrees or less vs an edge that is more obtuse (40 and up)?
That is really up to the user. Only you can really answer that question (or discern if there is any noticeable difference). Personally, I feel that the more acute the angle is, the more that the edge wants to cut or "bite". Additionally, I have done some demonstrations showing the reduced pressure needed at the handle to make the same push cut with a more acute angle (I proved it to me, it is up to you to prove it to you...then decide if it is worth the effort).

Do blades with acute edges require frequent sharpening?
Generally speaking, yes. All else equal, a more acute angle has less metal on the shoulders of the cutting edge to support it. There is a balance for every user between how acute the angle needs to be and how durable you need the edge to be.

Regarding steel. Hardness is one component. Metallurgy is another. You can (and others have) write quite a bit on the topic.

Another consideration is the overall geometry of the blade. As you grind the blade thinner behind the edge bevel, the angle of the bevel becomes less important.

A knife blade is really basically a ramp or wedge. Generally speaking the angle of the ramp is going to dictate (to some degree) how hard it is to push something up that ramp. The edge bevel is the angle of the first ramp, but if that ramp is REALLY short you then start considering the effective angle of the rest of the blade...and the surface finish (now we are talking about friction as you push something up that ramp). It should be said that the depth of the cut will determine how much of this blade geometry will come into play...if you are cutting or whittling hair, you are really only considering the leading edge of the blade. By contrast if you are trying to cut a several inch diameter barge rope, you are going to be experiencing more of the blade's geometry during the cut.

Of coarse you also must consider what sort of cutting you are doing (chopping, push cutting, slicing, etc.)

Welcome to some deep discussion regarding one of the simplest tools known to man (next to the hammer).
 
What are the advantages and disadvantages of an acute edge 30 degrees or less vs an edge that is more obtuse (40 and up)?. Do blades with acute edges require frequent sharpening?. Lastly does the hardness of the steel matter in what type of edge it should have i.e are softer steels better off with more obtuse edges than harder steels or should it be the other way around??
Fez


IMO, the best way for us to give you specific help is for you to give us more specific info. fortunately for all of us, there are lots of knowledgeable people floating around here who have, use and tinker with many different knives/steels.

what knife do you have?
what do you sharpen with?
what will this knife be used to cut?
 
rat you'r talking about 40°/side while the op was 90% sure talking about 40° inclusive. ie 20°/side.

at least i hope, axes below 20°/side whould be fun and considering 60° inclusive thin is kinda fun too.

no, I am talking about 40° inclusive.
 
ok so you put a 20°/side edge on an axe ? interresting. what kind of axe ?
 
The only time I have used an edge on a knife greater than 20/side was for deburring conduit. It worked ok, but deburring conduit doesnt exactly require a razor sharp edge.

Currently, all my knives are under 20 degrees. Some are 17, some 15, some 12, and I have a machete I'm working down to a 10/side bevel. My Cold Steel machetes will handle 15 to 20 degree bevels and will cut through a treated 4x4 and still shave my arm. I'm moving them up closer to 20, since my Panga rolled the edge on the second trip through the 4x4. My Old Hickory butcher knife is the only one that seems to roll excessively with a 17 to 20 degree bevel. It feels considerably softer than the machetes, but I don't have a way to measure it. My Delica is my current beater/rough EDC knife and gets used for nearly as much scraping as cutting. Other than the need to resharpen more often, it works good ok at 17/side with a 20/side Sharpmaker microbevel. If it were a dedicated scraper only, I'd sharpen it to 25/side, then put a 90 degree flat on the edge. The only thing I know will damage my knives is batoning 22 gauge sheet metal or a cycle through the dishwasher.
 
40° is not extreme for a knife. for an atchet it may be ok, for an axe i wont try.

i just wonder how you decided your edge angle is 20°/side on a convex edge. by the angle made by your iron and the surface ?
 
Go ahead and give 20/side a try. Experienced axe users (Leonard Lee) advocate going as thin as 10/side for dedicated, single purpose axes in the hands of skilled users.
 
If you put an edge on that really is too thin, a small micro bevel can often be all you need to prevent damage, rather than thickening the edge.
 
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