Advantages of a Balisong

A

asianman

Joined
Aug 9, 2000
Messages
1
I was wondering why in some states it is illegal to carry a butterfly...i don't see the proof behind the idea that butterflys can be made illegal and guns aren't?? What advantages does a butterfly have over a regular lockback with the same size blade, and is the butterfly a better self-defense tool? (Except for the fact it may scare some people with manipulations...)

P.S. If you know any fighting moves with the butterfly please lemme know where i can find stuff on it...thanks
 
www.balisongxtreme.com

and i think they are illegal due to the speed of opening...


Welcome and good luck...

P.S. Keep some bandages, alcohol and Neosporin around... you'll need it
smile.gif
 
Give up on the idea of trying to find common sense in the law. It is not there.

I even wrote an essay on the subject
Essay



------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
it may scare some people with manipulations
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There ya go. Stand in the middle of the sidewalk and flip your knife. See how many people cross the street. Not a good reason for such a strict law but its the only thing I can see they have to back it up.
 
Hey AsianMan,

Welcome to the Forum.

I think the legal problem has more to do with the Balisong's close association to the Martial Arts.

If you look a little more closely you'll see that Martial Arts weapons in general usually take more of a beating legally.

I guess you're automatically a "skilled killer" if can manipulate a Balisong..... as opposed to your run of the mill "bash someone's head in with a Golf club" type killer.



------------------
Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 
I own a Martial Arts school in Ohio. I am a 3rd Degree Black Belt in Taekwondo. I am also skilled in.
- Pressure Points
- Joint Manipulation
- Ground Fighting
- Knife Defense
- Sticks
- Double Sticks
- Nunchucku
- Double Nunchucku
- Long Staff
- Three Sectional Staff

The only thing I know about manipulating a Balisong I have learned from your website.

PS Chung San is the name of my 3rd degree black belt form. It is Korean translated it means "peace of mind and tranquility".

------------------
Chung San

Butterfly Knife Exchange
http://hometown.aol.com/kick122985/ButterflyKnifeExchange.html

[This message has been edited by ChungSan (edited 08-10-2000).]
 
Hiya Chuck! Hiya Clay!

You know, Chuck is correct, there is no sense to be found in the law at all, none whatsoever...no matter which way you cut it. Pun fully intended.

The gun analogy is flawed, in that all weapons are inanimate objects, they are neutral and can be used for good or bad. All depends on the person wielding the dangerous instrument. I won't preach to the Choir besides saying that.

When you look at the idiocy of knife laws, look to the gun control argument and the laws that have been passed in both Britain and Australia for the future of all knives in The United States. It will happen if it is not stopped. The guns will go then the knives will as well. In some parts of Australia, from what I have been told by a person I purchased a knife from on E-Bay, simple possession of a butterfly, switchblade or even a double edged dagger, is illegal. He is in Australia and he is a knife dealer, I guess he knows...

One of the things that always amused me is, Jeff Imada decried Balisong Laws in his book I have, "The Advanced BaliSong Manual," and yet, he was one of the experts used in, "Big Trouble in Little China," one of the movies that portrayed the Butterfly in a bad light.

Another movie was Charles Bronson's "10 to Midnight" in which the killer uses a Butterfly to do the nasty on innocent folks, and there is a prominent karate poster in his apartment that Bronson remarks on, like Bali's and martial arts, or the fondness for them is a yardstick for determining or suspecting someone of serial homicide.

Let's face it, the American Populace forms many of its' collective opinions through what it views on the Glass Toilet known as television...this is a big part of the problem.

The same thing happened when Bruce Lee debuted the Nunchaku to the Western World.
 
It is illegal in WA (and in most large cities, such as Seattle) to simply possess a balisong.
 
Don, a bali is a tool that can be used either good or bad? I think the government knows it. They just want you not to do bad at the cost of good things you could have done, cuz only good thing they expect from you is paying tax, and vote sometimes.


------------------
Did you enjoy today?
\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
>>I was wondering why in some states it is illegal to carry a butterfly...

They are illegal to carry, because of the size of the blade. There is a federal law against carrying any knife with a blade over 2 1/2". Even by a Paramedic, who intends to use it to save lives. I wish people would quite spreading the mis-information, that Balisongs and Butterfly knives are "illegal" because they are not. The Federal Court System, decided in Taylor vs US Customs, that a Balisong knife is not a illegal knife. Federal court decisions have precedent over all state courts. The legislative branch of the Goverment soundly and rapidly defeated Senator Ted Kennedys bill to try and outlaw them. Now a days, in this world of high tech, computer designed, lazar cut bladed knives, the Balisong knife is fairly difficult to open, in comparison. Often it takes skilled modification on the knife, and a highly trained individual, to be able to open a Balisong with one hand at all, and then the average generic pocket knife is still faster to open. Thanks, JohnR7 <img src=http://home.neo.rr.com/johnr7/redbali.jpg>

 
>>If you look a little more closely you'll >>see that Martial Arts weapons in general >>usually take more of a beating legally.

Most people know what I think about weapons, you can burn them all as far as I am concerned. The problem is, most Martial Arts "weapons" are actually tools, that have been skillfully modified, and take highly trained people to be able to use. I take issue with people who want to outlaw tools, that we need to build our home, make clothing, build a fire, or just to survive in general. We need more people who can teach out young people how to use a knife as a tool, to build, create, and strengthen, rather than tear down, harm and destroy with. Does that put me at odd's with the Martial Arts people? I don't know, most of them are pretty friendly to me, and respect my position, because we are pretty much in the same business of dealing in sharp objects. I just have a different use in mind for them. Also, a true Filipino Balisong, is a handcrafted work of art. Most of them have very little value as a weapon. Thanks, JohnR7 <img src=http://home.neo.rr.com/johnr7/red3bali.jpg>
 
Originally posted by JohnR7:

"They are illegal to carry, because of the size of the blade. There is a federal law against carrying any knife with a blade over 2 1/2". Even by a Paramedic, who intends to use it to save lives."

This is simply incorrect, your reading of the law is incorrect. There are Federal Laws about carrying knives on Commercial Aircraft, Federal Courthouses, Federal-Government Buildings. There is no Federal Statute that states what you said in your quote above. If there is, Post the entire passage of the U.S.C. right here...it does not exist on the street, in your car or home, only on Federal Property.

The other Federal Laws have to do with United States Customs/Importations and a very narrow band of knives and commerce. Interstate Commerce of switchblades, otherwise known as "gravity knives" may fall into that as well. Switchblades, gravity knives and yes, BaliSongs are forbidden for importation into this country.

There is also a Federal Law from the 1988 Omnibus Crime Act (If I remember correctly) that specifically mentions by name the Ballistic Knife which is propelled off of the handle by a powerful spring.

Again, there is no Federal Statute that regulates the size of knife in your pocket, unless you and your pocket are on their turf.

"I wish people would quite spreading the misinformation..."

You just did that yourself with regard to blade length being the determining factor of legality. Cite the U.S.C. please.


"Federal court decisions have precedent over all state courts."

Again, this is simply not true in all cases. The States have an immense amount of power and even though the Federal Law you state has either been misread, misinterpreted or simply does not exist, the Constitution and The Bill of Rights are clear.

Before tempers flare, remember, the Federal Government's statutes on knives are generally on importation and what you can carry in an area or building that is under the direct control of the Federal Government. This does not cover possession off their grounds or in your home. There are a few that are "nasties," like interstate commerce of Autos...and importing them, gravity and Bali's, but the one that is specifically banned by Federal Statute remains the Ballistic Knife.
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Originally posted by JohnR7:

"If you look a little more closely you'll see that Martial Arts weapons in general usually take more of a beating legally."

That is basically because the "Powers-that-be" frown on the Individual's rights and focus for the Collective. It is a leftist position. The reason gun control, knife control, blackjack and brass knuckle control exists is not to save lives, it is to control people.

"Most people know what I think about weapons, you can burn them all as far as I am concerned."

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, I think it is a bad opinion to have and brings even more chaos to the World then is necessary...

"The problem is, most Martial Arts "weapons" are actually tools, that have been skillfully modified, and take highly trained people to be able to use. I take issue with people who want to outlaw tools, that we need to build our home, make clothing, build a fire, or just to survive in general."

I take issue with people who want to ban weapons, for they are merely tools of Self-Preservation and as such, are every bit as legitimate and moral as a Carpenter's claw hammer. Weapons are what we need to "survive in general..." Indeed...look at your own words and it negates your own personal opinion on weaponry...simple survival sometimes means wielding a weapon in defense of your life or that of another.

"We need more people who can teach out young people how to use a knife as a tool, to build, create, and strengthen, rather than tear down, harm and destroy with."

I agree and I would add that they should know how to defend themselves with firearm, knife and stick as well as their bare hands, elbows, knees and feet. There is no "tearing down, harming or destroying" when you are in defense of innocence.

"Does that put me at odd's with Martial Arts People?"

If you vote for laws restricting your fellow Citizen's rights with regard to self-defense, possession and carry of weapons, yes, because you are then imposing your belief system and values on me, and endangering myself and my family in the process.

"Also, a true Filipino Balisong is a handcrafted work of art. Most of them have very little value as a weapon."

I guess you have to know how to use an edged weapon to understand them and be qualified to have true insight into them.
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There is a federal law against carrying any knife with a blade over 2 1/2".
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This type of law is a state law, not a federal law, I believe.

I've been told that the size of the balisong's blade does not matter. In WA the legal size of a blade you can conceal is 3.5". My BM68, with its 3" blade, is still illegal.
 
Again, the Federal Law he is talking about has zero to do with what you have in your pocket unless you and your pocket are on Federal Property.

If the Federales have a 2.5" Max. blade length statute, that simply means you cannot carry a knife larger then that on Federal-Controlled property, and in some instances, you cannot even carry that.

Some States consider the BaliSong to be a "Gravity Knife" because in most State Statutes, a Gravity Knife is loosely defined as a knife that can be opened by the depressing of a button and/or the flick of a wrist or drop of the hand, without spring activation. In some Statutes, the term, Centrifugal Force is used, and although the BaliSong can be opened two-handed, you can also use Centrifugal Force to open it.
 
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