Advice-Failure First Time Trying Bow Fire Drill

[Triquetra]

I tried the bow drill method to make fire today to practice the technique and didn't have much luck. I saved several web pages on the techniques and guess that I should have read them more closely. The first problem that I had was that the string on the bow kept pulling around the drill stick instead of rotating the stick. I tried a tighter string and didn't make much difference. when I made a sharper point on the stick it seemed to help. Somehow I finally got the stick to start rotating but I am not making any wood dust. It's probably the wood I'm using (River Birch) but it's what I had in the back yard. Instead of making a flammable dust it just polishing the wood to a high shine on the drill ends, handle hold, and the flat piece that is suppose to start smoking and making a fire. It doesn't even seem to be getting hot. I've tried light and heavy pressure. Any advice on what I might be doing wrong.

 

[coote]

I wish I could be there to see what is happening.

I find that it helps to have a decent bearing block (handle hold that supports the top end of the spindle). I have a rock with an indentation in it. I lubricate this end with butter or fat or cooking oil...but you have to make sure that you don't get any oil on the hot end of the spindle or the hearth board. If there is less friction drag at the bearing block, your cord is less likely to slip on the spindle.

It may be helpful in some circumstances to have a spindle with a rough surface...maybe even an octagonal one.... at least where the string goes.

Spindle diameter is another thing to consider. A big diameter will grab the string better, but according to what I've read and experienced you don't want the spindle to be too thick down at the hearthboard end... half an inch might be a good size to experiment with. But I am sure other folks will have other ideas.

I don't know much about different types of wood in your part of the world... maybe Doc or one of the others will have some good ideas.

You might like to try the Egyptian method of fastening your bow cord to the spindle. This involves a simple knot and more wraps of cord around the drill than the set-up you generally see where the cord just goes once around the spindle. I generally use just the single pass method nowadays, but I have used the Egyptian method a lot... especially when I first started and the drill kept on flying off into the air.

Here is a web page where you can see the Egyptian method (Primitive Ways):
http://www.primitiveways.com/#anchor694080

If you aren't making much dust, then maybe you need push harder down on the spindle.

If you are keen and persistent, you should win.

 

[mewolf1]

You've answered your own qestions. IMO hard woods like Birch and maple are extremly hard to get fire with, not that it can't be done, but a guy I know tried using an electric drill and failed. Try to get a medium hardwood, non resinous like Basswood. Your fire board should be about 1/2 inch thick. The hole in it should be about 1/8th inch from the edgeof the board and the notch dould NOT go all the way tio the middle of the hole. Also, make sure that there is as little friction as possible in the socket(taper the end some).
It sounds like the bow you are using is TO springy, maybe try a stiff one and when you set to twirlin grab the string with your fingers so that you can create more tension if things start slippin when you add downward pressure.
Be as steady as you can so that the enery you expend goes into the spindle.
Don't start down pressure til there is smoke starting, it needs to warm up some, at least it helps, then bare down. When you think you can stop go at it a little longer, and when you do stop remove the spindle slowly as to not knock the dust pile over. Once you get it,and it does take some practice, it will be hard to do it wrong.

Good Luck.
Kent

 

[Triquetra]

I wish I could be there to see what is happening.

I find that it helps to have a decent bearing block .

I think I made a decent bearing block for a start. It's kind of a knot in the wood that seems to be pretty durable.

Spindle diameter is another thing to consider. A big diameter will grab the string better, but according to what I've read and experienced you don't want the spindle to be too thick down at the hearthboard end... half an inch might be a good size to experiment with.

I think that I have a good sized spindle, about the size that I read about on a site that I found here. It did seem to help when I made the ends a little pointier though.

Here is a web page where you can see the Egyptian method (Primitive Ways):
http://www.primitiveways.com/#anchor694080.

Looks like a great site. I saved it to my favorites and am going to look a little closer after my replies here.

If you aren't making much dust, then maybe you need push harder down on the spindle.

I was actually pushing down pretty hard. I was thinking that this might be part of the problem.

If you are keen and persistent, you should win.

This is what I am hoping. This is why I am practicing before I really need it.

It sounds like the bow you are using is TO springy, maybe try a stiff one.

I actually thought that the problem was that I was using too stiff of one. I was using a dried stick kind of bow shaped. I read somewhere to use a green stick.

Once you get it,and it does take some practice, it will be hard to do it wrong.

Fingers crossed.

 

[mewolf1]

I actually thought that the problem was that I was using too stiff of one. I was using a dried stick kind of bow shaped. I read somewhere to use a green stick.

Can't be much stiffer than this one. Made from a Bison rib.

 

[coote]

I add extra tension to the bow string, if necessary, by squashing it against the bow, or pulling at it with my index finger.

It doesn't really matter what your bow is made out of provided that the string is tight enough. However a bit of dead, seasoned wood is probably what I would choose.

I've heard that cottonwood is a good fire-making wood. Maybe you have some growing nearby. Of course any drill or hearth wood should be dry, nicely seasoned stuff if at all possible.

It is a real blast when you succeed in making fire like this for the first time. Quite a conversation starter when you are having a barbeque with friends.

Best wishes... coote.

 

[DOC-CANADA]

I tried the bow drill method to make fire today to practice the technique and didn't have much luck. I saved several web pages on the techniques and guess that I should have read them more closely. The first problem that I had was that the string on the bow kept pulling around the drill stick instead of rotating the stick.This is the single biggest reason for string breakage. One of the problems I noticed with people learning the technique for the first time is they push down too hard. If you believe everything you read, you think that you need a 300 pound Sumo wrestler standing on your drill. Of course you do need enough downward pressure to create friction, but too much can be counter productive. I tried a tighter string and didn't make much difference. when I made a sharper point on the stick it seemed to help. Somehow I finally got the stick to start rotating but I am not making any wood dust. It's probably the wood I'm using (River Birch) but it's what I had in the back yard. As mewolf1 said, the Birch is too hard. His recommendation of Basswood is right on the money. It is my favourite wood for both the drill and hearth. It does have one inherent disadvantage, though, and that is the coal, unlike a lot of other woods is very crumbly so after you worked hard to achieve the coal, quite often it will fall apart transferring it to your tinder bundle. One way to offset this problem is to use a coal extender - material that when exposed to the glowing ember, will start glowing itself - something like True Tinder fungus (Inonotus obliquus), False Tinder fungus (Fomes fomentarius) or our friend, Jeff Wagner's favourite, punky wood. So, once you achieve the coal, before you move it, start a coal enhancer smouldering from the coal, then transfer the coal and the coal enhancer into the tinder bundle. The coal enhancer is not fragile. Instead of making a flammable dust it just polishing the wood to a high shine on the drill ends, handle hold, and the flat piece that is suppose to start smoking and making a fire. It doesn't even seem to be getting hot. The wood is too hard. I'm not saying, nobody could make it work, but I haven't and since you're just learning, faggedaboutit! Another good choice is one of the Poplar family (Populus spp.). Willow (Salix spp.) and Cedar (Thuja occidentalis). I'm not sure of the trees growing in your area, but I bet you have some Willow. Another fairly good material is Manitoba Maple AKA Box Elder (Acer negundo).

Doc

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Spindle diameter is another thing to consider. A big diameter will grab the string better, but according to what I've read and experienced you don't want the spindle to be too thick down at the hearthboard end... half an inch might be a good size to experiment with. But I am sure other folks will have other ideas.

What you might want to try and something that I usually do is I leave the part of the drill larger in diameter where the string rides and smaller where the drill meets the hearth. Some people will tell you that this slows down the working end, and of course, they are correct, but I haven't found it to be a problem, in fact, the reverse is true due to increased traction (right word?) between the drill and the bow string.


You might like to try the Egyptian method of fastening your bow cord to the spindle. This involves a simple knot and more wraps of cord around the drill than the set-up you generally see where the cord just goes once around the spindle. I generally use just the single pass method nowadays, but I have used the Egyptian method a lot... especially when I first started and the drill kept on flying off into the air.

Coote, as always, has an excellent suggestion - the Egyptian bow drill should solve your problems re: string slippage, but I still prefer the other method. Maybe because I worked long and hard to learn it. If you use the Egyptian method, you can use a constrictor knot around the drill. I find this works well.

Here is a web page where you can see the Egyptian method (Primitive Ways):
http://www.primitiveways.com/#anchor694080

If you aren't making much dust, then maybe you need push harder down on the spindle. Coote, I think his problem here is his choice of materials, as mewolf1 already mentioned, although in a lot of cases, you would be correct.
If you are keen and persistent, you should win. No argument here - I learned how to do the bow drill method of friction fire by practice and what I could find to read. I won't tell how long it took me (don't want to discourage you) but there is more than enough people willing to help you, that it shouldn't take you any time at all.

(I had to add this because the forum kept saying my message was too short -because of the way I'm responding to your posts).

Doc

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Both mewolf1 and coote gave excellent advice. Before you spend any more time, find some better materials. If you have a question about material suitability, post it. It may not grow in my area, but will in somebody else's. I also used to have a Buffalo rib for a bow, until my daughter's German Shepherd took a liking to it. Now what I prefer is a bit of a curved stick (and no, not green, unless that's all that's available) with a fork on the far end. If the two legs of the fork are different diameters, fine, but if not, make them so. Secure the cord to the near end (where your hand goes) and use a loop on the far end. By changing the way the cord wraps around the far end legs, you can adjust your string tension on the drill. If the string stretches it is a simple matter to take an extra turn on a fork leg ( or even change the way it's wrapped). This eliminates tying and retying if the string gets too loose. Hope this helps. Don't hesitate to ask more questions, if necessary.

Looking forward to your post of success.

Doc

 

[runningboar]

I have had success with Poplar if any grows where you are located. Chris

 

[Codger_64]

I am using a Mewolf buffler bow set too, and the pieces all work great. Besides finding a softer wood, you can increase the friction another way. Add a pinch of dust or fine sand. This will fix a polished spindle end and socket too. That may be some of your problem. With too much pressure, you might have just polished and heat hardened them.

Codger

 

[LG&M]

I have used ceder with success. Also cottonwood is very good. I made the socket, fire board & spindel out of the same peace of wood. A little soap in the hand socket will keep it lubed.

 

[Triquetra]

Thanks for all of the great advice. I actually thought that the River Birch was a soft wood. Well at least I've learned a little of what not to do and how to tell if the wood is too hard. I like the idea of adding a pinch of dust or sand to get the polish off. I am going to take this advice and keep trying until I finally make fire. I'll make sure and post the results and experiences of trial and error when I succeed.

 

[coote]

Don't forget to have a nice bundle of flammable tinder ready so you can turn that first glowing coal into a flame.

Several times I have produced a coal then failed to turn it into a flame.

 

[TonyC]

This is a very difficult question to answer without being there to see what you are doing but, I'll have a go at giving you a few pointers to be aware of.

The most important is your wood selection. I live in the United Kingdom and I could tell you what are the easier woods to use for bow drilling here. But, I have no idea about the woods available to you where you live but, I can tell you one thing. If your wood is green you're not going to succeed. Whatever wood you use it must be "dry standing". This basically means that you need to select wood which is dead but still attached to the tree.

Your spindle should be about an inch in diameter. The reason for this is that it moves further than a small skinny spindle would along the same length of bow string.

Your spindle needs to have the correct profiles at each end. The end of your spindle that fits into your bearing block should be very sharp a bit like a "V" shape because you want as little friction as possible to be created at this end. Use a green leaf to lubricate this end of the spindle. Holly leaves are good as they are stong and waxy. The other end of your spindle should be quite blunt a bit like a "U" shape as this is the end that fits in the hearth and needs to create lots of friction.

If you have been bow drilling for a while you will probably notice that the end of the spindle and the hole in the hearth that it fits into will start to get a glazed look about them. You must scrape this off with your knife as it reduces the amount of friction being caused.

Your bow string needs to be quite tight. As you drill over a period of time the string will stretch and get a little looser. You can help to take this slack up by gripping the bow string with a couple of your fingers on the hand you are using to hold the bow with.

Your body position is very important. Set your bow drill up ready to commence drilling. Place your foot on the leg you are not kneeling on as close as possible to the spindle on the hearth (fire board) without hindering the rotation of the spindle. With whichever hand you are using to hold the bearing block, wedge the elbow of that arm on your knee to give it support. Lean forward and get your chest right over the top of the spindle and bearing block. This will put your body weight directly onto the spindle. It's amazing how much pressure you need to apply. Remember to get the spindle moving before you apply maximum pressure though or you'll never budge the damn thing.

The arm you're using to move the drill with needs to swing from the shoulder. Do not move it at the elbow or you won't be able to keep drilling without the string climbing up the spindle and pinging off.

And finally one more tip. When selecting the wood to make your bow drill set. Try and use the same wood for both the spindle and the hearth. Many books say you should use such and such wood for the spindle and such and such wood for the hearth. That's bullshit. Try and use wood from the same limb of the same tree to make your hearth and spindle. Just think about it. You want two pieces of wood exactly the same hardness rubbing against each other to get the maximum amount of friction. If you use two different types of wood, one is going to be harder than the other, therefore the softer one is going to wear quicker. What would be the benefit of that?

Well, good luck. Keep practising and see if those tips help you along a little.

All the best,

Tony

 

[Thomas Linton]

Lots of good advice.

To reduce friction in the upper socket, try a suitably-sized thumb tack to "line" the bottom of the socket hole. Wax also helps - candle or ear.

Practice will help your body "learn" the proper combination of down pressure and bow/spindle tightness.

But get better wood by all means. Your finger nail should dent it, but not easily. I have good luck with poplar/alder. I am experimenting with "Buck Thorn," a pest around here.

 

[Diligence]

I've wondered about something for some time now - squealing and squeeking when spinning the drill.

I've made glowing embers, but have almost always gone deaf while doing it.

Why does it squeal so much? On TV I've seen various people make fire with bows, but they never make noise.

Oh wise ones - what am I doing wrong? By the by, it doesn't seem to matter if I use spruce, fir, pine, poplar or willow.

D

 

[DOC-CANADA]

I am experimenting with "Buck Thorn," a pest around here.

Hey Thomas,
Are you referring to Common Buckthorn (Rhamnus cathartica)? I've never tried it but for some reason I thought the wood was quite hard. BTW, the bark is flammable - not quite as good as Cherry (Prunus spp.) but it still works.

Diligence - I've had that problem many times myself. I think it's caused by glazing. What I usually do is just add a bit more pressure to the drill and increase the speed for a short bit and 'burn' through it. The other thing I do sometimes, is remove the glazing from the hearth depression and the tip of the drill before I begin drilling. A lot of people recommend carving it off with a knife. I find that a rough stone (like sandstone) can abrade it away better, and you don't have to wear off the facets created with your knife (unless you're very DILIGENT ) Also your use of coniferous woods may contribute to the problem, although you can get it with others, like the Willow, you mentioned.

Doc

 

[Thomas Linton]

Hey Thomas,
Are you referring to Common Buckthorn (Rhamnus cathartica)? I've never tried it but for some reason I thought the wood was quite hard. BTW, the bark is flammable - not quite as good as Cherry (Prunus spp.) but it still works.

You made me learn something, which is good. What we call "Buckthron" around here is Glossy Buckthron, R. franguls. I am drying some pieces, and they appear to be on the edge of acceptable in term sof hardness. I can just dent them with a thumbnail.

We must also have some Common Buckthorn, R. catharticus, somewhere in Ohio because it is also on the State of Ohio invasive species warning site.

 

[mewolf1]

I've wondered about something for some time now - squealing and squeeking when spinning the drill.

I've made glowing embers, but have almost always gone deaf while doing it.

Why does it squeal so much? On TV I've seen various people make fire with bows, but they never make noise.

Oh wise ones - what am I doing wrong? By the by, it doesn't seem to matter if I use spruce, fir, pine, poplar or willow.

D

It mighty be that you are getting drag from the tips of your spindle i.e. to fat, that is to say that you might be starting out to fat on the tip. I personnally like to "sharpen" somewhat the ends.