African Blackwood Imported from China?

Jesse WW

Jesse WW

Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
71
Hey all,

I am wondering if anybody has any experience with African Blackwood imported from China. I bought a handle sized block of it for $10 on eBay, however I feel a little bit dubious in its authenticity, and I am hesitant to use it on any knives I make. The quality of the wood seems good, but weather it is actually African Blackwood is what has me so uncertain.

Its very hard, feels quite heavy, it is a chocolate brown rather than black, and has somewhat of a linear grain.

I dont have a lot of experience with this wood considering its quite hard to come by where I live, and if I can end up finding some, it is usually quite expensive. It just seems too good to be true that I am able to buy blocks of this stuff for so cheap. Could it maybe be a different kind of wood being passed off as African Blackwood? A common hardwood that has been dyed? Maybe I'm just ignorant to how common African Blackwood really is?

This is the stuff i purchased. It says it is both Ebony AND African Blackwood, which i thought were completely different? https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AU-Hand...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I can upload images of the block I actually received if that helps in identification. I would like to hear from some others more familiar with wood than I, and if they have experience importing this cheap stuff from China.

The help is greatly appreciated

Jesse
 
I don't have any experience from woods that have been imported from china but that ebay link doesn't look quite rebutable.
 
Click on "See feedback" next to where is shows the amount that have been sold so far. It seems there have only been positive reviews so far on that particular wood from that buyer, so I'd think it'd be fine to use it, whether it be ebony or African blackwood, unless of course you don't want to use ebony for any reason. The page is a bit misleading/confusing saying the item location is from Melbourne Australia, but then when you do a search for it, the same listing says it's from Hong Kong on the search results page, so I don't know what that's all about.

The item description midway down the page does say it's Ebony, so maybe when they say "African blackwood" they are just describing it's origin and it's color? The price seems right for a block of ebony and even for blackwood in that size ( as seen here for example: https://www.amazon.com/Texas-Knifemakers-Supply-Exotic-Natural/dp/B072BNSFS1?th=1 ) ... so I doubt it's some random dyed hardwood trying to rip people off.

It seems most people can really only differentiate between the two based on the smell when it's worked and how it works, since there are a number of types of ebony with different characteristics (black, or black with brown, etc). I'm not a wood expert though, so maybe somebody else with more experience with the two will chime in.



~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (Some older vids of some of the older knives I made)
 
With all your doubts and questions why don’t you just return it through the eBay return program? The seller accepts returns....

he has a lot of transactions but too many negative ones on a consistent basis
 
Surely it's more hassle returning it then what it is worth. For what it is worth, the op says himself he thougth the deal is too good to be true. Anyway if it looks good why not use it on a knife for yourself and see how it holds up? You can PM me for a link of a instrument guy that sells wood rests in ebay. They are usually quite usable and he sells per kg for cheap. He is based in EU though.
 
I appreciate the responses.

I have worked with genuine ebony once, being able to discern different types from the smell would be difficult.

The problem is not with the wood itself or its quality, the block I received would make a great handle - however my concern is more or less weather it is actually AB/Ebony, rather than something that can be passed off as such without actually being so. Are there other cheap common woods that can be bogusly sold as African Blackwood/Ebony? I figured one of the wood few experts here on the forums may have come across this Chinese stuff before?

As much as I would like to use it, I cant put it on a blade without being 110% sure it is the real thing. Id rather not use it TBH. I bought it because I was curious.

Y'all are wondering why I'm resorting to this Chinese stuff. This all stems from the problem of not being able to find quality genuine AB/Ebony in the first place within Australia. It is super hard to find within the country and after speaking to govt departments a lot of problems arise when trying to import it.

How come these Chinese sellers can import this "African Blackwood/Ebony" en masse, yet I cant find any genuine high quality AB/Ebony anywhere else within Australia? Seems extremely odd IMO which is what raised my suspicions in the first place.
In the two years hunting for the stuff constantly, I have only managed to snag one good piece of genuine high quality Ebony, the rest is just the Chinese stuff.
 
Jesse WW said:
I appreciate the responses.

I have worked with genuine ebony once, being able to discern different types from the smell would be difficult.

The problem is not with the wood itself or its quality, the block I received would make a great handle - however my concern is more or less weather it is actually AB/Ebony, rather than something that can be passed off as such without actually being so. Are there other cheap common woods that can be bogusly sold as African Blackwood/Ebony? I figured one of the wood few experts here on the forums may have come across this Chinese stuff before?

As much as I would like to use it, I cant put it on a blade without being 110% sure it is the real thing. Id rather not use it TBH. I bought it because I was curious.

Y'all are wondering why I'm resorting to this Chinese stuff. This all stems from the problem of not being able to find quality genuine AB/Ebony in the first place within Australia. It is super hard to find within the country and after speaking to govt departments a lot of problems arise when trying to import it.

How come these Chinese sellers can import this "African Blackwood/Ebony" en masse, yet I cant find any genuine high quality AB/Ebony anywhere else within Australia? Seems extremely odd IMO which is what raised my suspicions in the first place.
In the two years hunting for the stuff constantly, I have only managed to snag one good piece of genuine high quality Ebony, the rest is just the Chinese stuff.
Click to expand...
Moderators would delete this if this link is not allowed.I like this German site for wood , you will get what you see on pictures..........
https://www.feinesholz.de/en/knife-blocks-scales/
 
Ebony smell is pretty particular, if you worked with it you will notice right away, ebay photos don't look like ebony, maybe you can take better ones from the block you received.

[edit] if you go to my site www.peu.net and put ebony in the search box (yeah, shameless plug :D) you will find plenty of ebony handled knives photos.

Pablo
 
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This comes into an issue with wood a lot of people dont really understand.

Wood species are pretty rough estimates, and wood appearance is WILDLY variable.

I will use cocobolo as an example because this is a wood i have particular expertise in, but it applies to basically all imported wood harvested in tropical or semi tropical areas.

When I sell a piece of wood as Cocobolo, Im selling it as Dalbergia Retusa. I pay my suppliers a premium to be sure that when I buy cocobolo it is high quality, old stock mexican grown Dalbergia Retusa. But to the guy out in the highlands of Mexico or Guatamala, or to some miniumum wage worker at bell forest or wherever, Dalbergia stevensoni or any of the other of dozens of local rosewoods may as well be cocobolo and will get listed as such.

And even within a true species, there is massive variation based on the alitude the tree grew at, the soil, the shade level and moisture. As a general rule, the worse the conditions the better the wood. The Guatemalan rain forest is generally more fertile than the mexican high forests, and thus guatamealn cocobolo grows more quickly, with less reds and wider rings.

What you probably got was real African Blackwood, Dalbergia Melanoxylon, because there really arent many look alikes from the region. But you probably got a relatively low grade piece of it, with wider spaced rings and without the deep midnight purple/ black look of high grade blackwood.

When people send me angry emails that my cocobolo is expensive and they can get cocobolo for 60 a board foot at their local wood shop and put me right out of business, I say good luck to them.

Knife makers are among the most picky, figure obsessed wood buyers in the world. When I buy wood, I am sorting and picking and choosing because I know the only way to keep my customers coming back is to make sure that each piece is excellent. Buying sight unseen on wood is risky prospect for a lot of makers, and a lot of makers have been burned. The fact that i have repeat customers for my sight unseen woods in a real point of pride for me.

So in that long ramble i would say, you generally get what you pay for. Yeah, you probably got real African Blackwood, but it looks like second or third grade material from cutting clarinet blanks or frets.
 
I live in taiwan,usually buy the china's wood,if you can post your wood picture,maybe I can distinguish it is true and false,the Africa blockwood is not all black,many is dark brown,it have the level,maybe you buy the wood is low level item.
 
Jesse WW said:
I appreciate the responses.

I have worked with genuine ebony once, being able to discern different types from the smell would be difficult.

The problem is not with the wood itself or its quality, the block I received would make a great handle - however my concern is more or less weather it is actually AB/Ebony, rather than something that can be passed off as such without actually being so. Are there other cheap common woods that can be bogusly sold as African Blackwood/Ebony? I figured one of the wood few experts here on the forums may have come across this Chinese stuff before?

As much as I would like to use it, I cant put it on a blade without being 110% sure it is the real thing. Id rather not use it TBH. I bought it because I was curious.

Y'all are wondering why I'm resorting to this Chinese stuff. This all stems from the problem of not being able to find quality genuine AB/Ebony in the first place within Australia. It is super hard to find within the country and after speaking to govt departments a lot of problems arise when trying to import it.

How come these Chinese sellers can import this "African Blackwood/Ebony" en masse, yet I cant find any genuine high quality AB/Ebony anywhere else within Australia? Seems extremely odd IMO which is what raised my suspicions in the first place.
In the two years hunting for the stuff constantly, I have only managed to snag one good piece of genuine high quality Ebony, the rest is just the Chinese stuff.
Click to expand...
The Chinese have invested big in Africa. Buying up natural resources . As already stated, there can be quite the variation in Ebony and other woods. Just cause it’s not perfectly black doesn’t mean it won’t be good Handle material ...
 
I would avoid buying Blackwood(or any exotic wood) from China. They rarely abide by international CITES laws in most cases, so that wood is likely not being sourced legally, or ethically. It's a common tactic for chinese firms to illegally log, mine, etc etc something from the 3rd world, import it to china, then sell it abroad. Essentially the same process as money laundering.

For a buck or two more a block you can find legit sources, from sustainable blackwood operations now. Why contribute to deforestation in what likely was a national park in Africa when legal, ethical wood can be obtained for barely more?
 
Thanks everyone for the responses. I am quite happy with the answers I have gotten.

I will take that it is likely (but not guaranteed) to be Dalbergia Melanoxylon then. However as said, if there is a chance that it may have been logged illegally, I'm overwhelmingly inclined to not purchase it again (not that I want anymore of this junk anyway haha).

Just for the heck of it ill get a small piece of my good ebony and see if i can compare smells when sanding it. I have thought about getting samples tested, but it seems like it would be a bit of a hassle.

Here are a few pictures for those who are curious anyway:

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As you can see its quite ordinary.

Anyhow, I have just found a site called Luthers Merchantile who seem to sell the stuff I am looking for (or as close as I can get). When I emailed them they stated that any rosewoods (which includes African Blackwood) cannot be exported, however the West African/Indian Ebony can. They conveniently list on the product page if it can/cant be exported. So ill have to give them a go at importing some Ebony. Fingers crossed no issues arise. Anybody have any experience with them?
 
I take it your in Australia by that ebay listing? If so ALL blackwood/ebony is CITES listed and cannot be exported from the USA. The way the law works is its ok to import from the source with paperwork, but then it's locked in at that destination country to stop people from using transshipment points to launder the wood thus hiding its origin/legality. That's my understanding at least. There should be a source or two in your home country though that has permits and is getting in regular shipments. Just look for Clarinet makers/suppliers and the wood will follow. That's how i get a lot of my blackwood here in the USA is clarinet rejects. Great wood, just had a hole, or crack that makes it unusable for intended purpose, but can get 1-3 knife handles out of each by working around it, and here they can be had for like $5 a pop. Place here in Oregon, Gilmer Wood, gets blackwood clarinet/turning rejects by the barrel full. can pick up hundreds of pounds of blackwood for barely over $2.50 a pound with from my exp, 80+% of it fully usable good quality. https://www.gilmerwood.com/products/178157-african-blackwood-turning-squares-barrel
 
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Jesse WW said:
Anyhow, I have just found a site called Luthers Merchantile who seem to sell the stuff I am looking for (or as close as I can get). When I emailed them they stated that any rosewoods (which includes African Blackwood) cannot be exported, however the West African/Indian Ebony can. They conveniently list on the product page if it can/cant be exported. So ill have to give them a go at importing some Ebony. Fingers crossed no issues arise. Anybody have any experience with them?
Click to expand...

First time I bought from them was 30 years ago, good people.
 
Aidenag said:
I would avoid buying Blackwood(or any exotic wood) from China. They rarely abide by international CITES laws in most cases, so that wood is likely not being sourced legally, or ethically. It's a common tactic for chinese firms to illegally log, mine, etc etc something from the 3rd world, import it to china, then sell it abroad. Essentially the same process as money laundering.

For a buck or two more a block you can find legit sources, from sustainable blackwood operations now. Why contribute to deforestation in what likely was a national park in Africa when legal, ethical wood can be obtained for barely more?
Click to expand...
While I agree China does many crooked things and I refrain from buying anything from there which is almost impossible these days. Blackwoods grow very slowly, 100 years plus. Calling them renewable is a bit of a joke. That’s why I prefer Bocote which grows in small to medium sized groves of trees in Mexico & C America. In 10-30 years, Lots of figure. Domestic Walnut, Ash, Maple, Oak —— Also it’s almost impossible to really know these days if any Blackwood etc is Legally harvested & renewable ....
 
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