AKTI represents manufacturers, not users

Joined
Jun 2, 2001
Messages
1

Is it any surprise that AKTI is perfectly happy to support freedom-reducing legislation that will only affect their competition? This kind of sell-out should be familiar to anyone who remembers Ruger's support of the "high capacity" magazine ban.

A high-quality manufacturers association supporting legislation which will affect only "cheap imports" (sneer)... *yawn*.

What they fail to realize is that such a strategy, while profitable in the short run, is suicidal in the long run. They may think that they can tame the beast, but they are going down a road which will lead to a complete ban on tactical folders at some point in the future.
 
In the gun world, there are several different national-level lobbying orgs, not just the NRA. There's GOA, which tends to be more "hardcore" or "second amendment purist" than the NRA; in my opinion they're not as sneaky as the NRA under LaPierre has been of late.

And then there's the NSSF - National Shooting Sports Federation. That's the gun manufacturer's lobby. At various times, they've taken "compromizing positions" worse than the NRA ever did, although they've been doing much better of late.

Regardless, the NSSF's motives have been "profits first, right to arms second"...and ATKI is much closer in format to the NSSF than they are the NRA.

On the flip side, let's look at the good news.

Buck Knives helped out a LOT in California in the past; they were a direct help in the reforms effective 1/1/97 and 1/1/98 that put California's knife laws ahead of almost every other state. I haven't forgotten that! It would take a LOT to convince me that Buck's motives in SB274 were directly harmful to our interests and what's happened so far hasn't done so!

Buck is a leader in ATKI, so without question there's at least some elements of ATKI that care about our rights.

I think SB274 in it's current form was simply a mistake, and one that can be fixed. I think ATKI is still a new org, and a screwup in the early years is something they can get past no sweat.

I'll say this though: at some point, the "weapons issue" has to be addressed. Self defense IS legitimate, and is of such massive societal benefit that it outweighs the downsides of criminal knife carry, which is going to happen no matter what, to at least some degree. Now isn't the time; I plan on fighting SB274 on the "accidental felon" problem, by describing how lawful people could get utterly shafted and have no way of knowing they're breaking the law just by reading the law - they'd have to go back to the legislative intent documents where ATKI talked about banning snapopens, in order to predict what a court might do.

That's WAY too high a burden to put on the citizenry.

Jim
 
Jim, Others,

Looking at it from the "Tactical" side of things, consider this, and NO ONE is bringing this up...

Switchblades, Various forms of Gravity Knives, Balisongs [Butterfly Knives], Tactical Folders and anything you can define as a "Combat" Fixed Blade are so far down on the list of things that people are killed or assaulted with, it is not even funny.

This absolute hysteria over POCKETknives was stupid in 1958 and man, 43 years later, we are, as a Society, still stupid.

Kitchen Knives, Razor Knives, Boxcutters and Screwdrivers have been and continue to be, the Kings of The Edged Weapons Class when it comes to Street Crime.

Why?

Because they are cheap and easy...and they are far more effective than the Cheap Imports.

While the high profile of the SNAP of these various types of folding knives is gaining attention, the Common Kitchen Knife, Carpet Knife and Screwdriver continue taking their toll...with no hysteria in relative silence.

Someone needs to start pounding this into the head of Legislators.


------------------
Usual Suspect Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Don Rearic:
Jim, Others,

Someone needs to start pounding this into the head of Legislators.

</font>

Don: When was the last time you wrote to your legislators, state and U.S.? When was the last time you pressed your friends to do so.? How about being "someone"? A. G.
 
A.G., please...!!! I wish I had a nickle for every time I wrote or phoned or emailed...don`t just assume that we aren`t active in our own states and towns and communities. Why don`t YOU be somebody? You have all kinds of credibilty in the knife world. Are you doing YOUR part, A.G.?

[This message has been edited by Steve B. (edited 06-03-2001).]
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Steve B.:
A.G., please...!!! I wish I had a nickle for every time I wrote or phoned or emailed...don`t just assume that we aren`t active in our own states and towns and communities. Why don`t YOU be somebody? You have all kinds of credibilty in the knife world. Are you doing YOUR part, A.G.?

[This message has been edited by Steve B. (edited 06-03-2001).]
</font>

Steve: How on earth can you assume that I am not. Do I need to be ranting on BF for somebody else to be doing something to have credibility in your eyes? When is the last time you had a face to face meeting with someone in your state government? City government?

Come to the meeting of the AKTI and attend the siminar that Les and Dave Kowalski and I are doing on just that subject.

This is not an attack on Steve, these questions are addressed to everybody. I will not attack anybody, I have no use for flame wars.

JWales by the way is really off base. If the AKTI had not gone into Calif there would have been an end to tactical knife this year, not in the future.

all the best,

A. G.
 

JWales by the way is really off base. If the AKTI had not gone into Calif there would have been an end to tactical knife this year, not in the future.


Mr. Russell, rather than bore you or anyone else with a long drawn out post, I will say (or post) two words. Domino effect.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by A. G. Russell:
Don:
When was the last time you wrote to your legislators, state and U.S.? When was the last time you pressed your friends to do so.? How about being "someone"? A. G.
</font>

With all due respect, do you think this is going to silence me? How dare you, where did THIS come from? You make assumptions, and you know what they say about the word ASSUME.

When you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME. ASS-U-ME. But you did not make an ass out of me as I do phone my Legislators and I follow up with letters. The last time was here in Maryland.

My Wife works in a Pharmacy and even though there are Police in that neighborhood CONSTANTLY, there is still a 20 minute response time when she calls and says, "I have a kid in here who is threatening to cut my throat when I leave tonight." That was two years ago. Just last night, she had to stay over one hour after closing time because someone was in there, drunk out of their mind and refusing to leave. Every week it is something. She wears a Second Chance Vest [bullet-resistant].

The point? A Baltimore City Police Officer was hit at approximately 100MPH by a 17-year old Drug Dealer, broadside, as he was being chased by other Officers. He had a Vest on and was carrying a 9mm Glock.

What was Maryland's answer? BAN BULLET-RESISTANT VESTS.

By the way, the kid walked at trial a couple months ago. Nice Juries in Baltimore City and when I say he walked, he walked FREE, NOT GUILTY.

You better believe I write and phone Legislators and I don't know where you get off taking anyone to "task" because they have an opinion.

I did last time so they did not criminalize my Wife's passive defense, even though she cannot get a Handgun Permit in this crappy State.

Now because of compromises made in a battle in California, a wave could sweep this country that even bans her choice of KNIFE she carries...

I do write, and when I call, someone else answers the phone. They read the mail. Rare for a Legislator these days to personally answer. Most responses are FORM LETTERS sent out to disgruntled Gun Owners.

So...dismount your horse of righteous indignation.

If you're a part of AKTI, you should not be compromising.


------------------
Usual Suspect Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
Sorry, A.G., but you come across as the grandfather nobody asked for. If you are a part of the AKTI, I suggest you worry about what you and organization are doing. If you call what the AKTI has done in Cali as "doing your part", then it`s time to seriously re-think exactly what your "part" is. God knows what the hell you guys were thinking! Pardon our outrage......

Please re-read what I wrote, A.G., I said since you "HAVE crediblity"; I believe you do. I believe you do have clout. Are you using it? I wish you would. I figure folks like you would have a lot to lose if this is the legislative trend. Don`t believe me? Come to Massachusetts and talk to anyone that owns a gun shop. See what it`s like to try to run a business under some of the most oppressive, restrictive laws in the country.

[This message has been edited by Steve B. (edited 06-03-2001).]
 
First thing, I am *begging* everybody here to stop with the accusations and bickering pointed at AKTI people such as AG, CJ Buck, etc.

OK? It just DOESN'T HELP.

We know that both CJ and AG mean well. Flaming them is ridiculous.

Now, AG, CJ, anybody reading this: I need to know if any sort of "criminal control" version of this bill was ever kicked around. I also need contact info for the CDAA staff that was involved in the negotiations surrounding this bill. Please. It's not too late to suggest "criminal control" as the answer and either leave the existing "honest citizen restrictions" in place or possibly even roll them back.

Everybody else: unless you've got something positive to add, back off. Trust me on this. Alienate AKTI people and there's no chance to fix it.

Jim
 
Out of respect to you, Jim, I will back off. I wish you and ever other freedom loving Californian the best of luck in untangling the current legislative mess. (That it is a mess of our own making is still galling!)
 
Gentlemen,

First I will apologize for being an absentee moderator. I have been spending my online time on the Buck forum.

I am still chuckling on the "granpa nobody wanted" comment...I think I could probably come up with a nice knife blade etch or a T-shirt to commemorate that line AG...

Jim, you and I have spoken before on your disappointment with SB 274.

These bills are really a symptom of law enforcement trying to do their jobs at the whims of juries that come up with the most ridiculous verdicts.

To combat the release of criminals, DA's pursue things that are easier to prove (such as possession instead of intent).

Our position has been that this is fine if the impact to the rights of the general citizenry is mitigated or minimized.

This is an ongoing process. AKTI is working to set itself up as a partner with law enforcement and not a vociferous critic.

SB 274 is mitigation for an attempted elimination of our earlier exemption to switchblade law. DA's felt it was being abused and wanted it abolished.

SB 274 establishes the first ojective field criteria for a "gravity knife". As Jim Mathis always reminded me, "all knives are gravity knives, it is just a question of how much gravity is required..." We are introducing "bias toward closure" as an objective, measurable in the field specification for exempting knives from switchblade law.

SB 274 has passed senate and I fly up to sacramento in 2 weeks for the assembly committee hearing in prep for the assembly vote.

The manufacturer's have stepped up. Ponying up personal time and corporate and personal resources.

We are not up against a rational force here. We are trying to forge a public opinion that releasing items previously tagged as weapons is not going to reduce their safety.

We need to stop searching for defeat in our victories.

------------------
CJ Buck
Buck Knives, Inc.
AKTI Member #PR00003


 
AKTI, unique in the history of the knife industry, has taken on a very large mission. That mission is to represent the entire knife industry ... manufacturers, distributors, retailers and yes, end users whom we believe have the right to possess, carry and use knives in a responsible fashion.

If AKTI had not stepped forward in California to respond to a threat to take away the current exemption for one-hand opening knives in the switchblade law, we would currently be hearing a lot more weaping and knashing of teeth about the future of our industry and our rights as citizens. A lot of companies would be in the process of losing that market. And a lot of knife users would be de-facto criminals.

CJ Buck is right. We need to stop looking for defeats in our victories. California is shaping up to be a clear victory. If you want an update, please go to my new post on the SB274 thread.

Will this victory be static? Probably not. At some time in the future a lawmaker or prosecutor might decide their interpretation of what's good for society needs to be pressed. And AKTI will step forward again to address the issue with a new vision, new information, and a new sense of the then-public mood.

A.G. Russell has also clearly suggested where we believe we can be most effective (translation ... get the most done with the fewest dollars and man/woman hours). That direction is to make contact with, develop dialogue with, and offer AKTI resources to, lawmakers across the country on a state-by-state basis. We call that our AKTI Legislative Action Plan. It is sensible, practical, workable, fiscally responsible and very likely to succeed as a long-term strategy.

Is it static? No. If we get support from certain lawmakers, they could very well be voted out of office and we will have to start all over again in that state. Yes, that's frustrating. But that's reality. Kind of like having to wash the dishes every day if you want to eat off of clean dishes.

The dialogue with lawmakers that we have in California over SB274 is one part of that process. So was the meeting AKTI representatives set up with U.S. Representative Barbara Hooley in Oregon in May 2000 ... some five months before Columbia River Knife and Tool asked her and Senator Gordon Smith to come to their aid when U.S. Customs seized 50 models of their one-hand opening knives. Here's the short story: Hooley and Smith wrote and emailed a letter supporting CRKT to the Commissioner of Customs on a Wednesday; two days later, on Friday, they had their knives back.

And another thing A.G. didn't mention is that he recently initiated a meeting with his representative in Arkansas, Asa Hutchinson, that promises to give us another ally in our AKTI goal of "Keeping Knives in American Lives."

In early April of this year, I was also in Colorado meeting with key manufacturers about setting up meetings with their local and national lawmakers.

This is a slow, steady, non-glamorous, non-sexy process of writing letters, having meetings, and offering and asking for support. It's American politics at the grassroots level.

It's not about wild words, unfounded accusations and bonfires in the street. The AKTI Executive Committee has clearly espoused that moderate and reasonable approach. We don't believe fiery rhetoric is the way to get cooperation from lawmakers and the law enforcement community, as we clearly did in getting SB274 to this stage.

I would also invite all of you to check another new post on this forum ... AKTI Wants Your Suggestions.

If you want us to consider your views about the direction of AKTI, please take some time to research the implications (in terms of time, money and public perception) of your strategy.

For example, from my 20 years in publishing, I can tell you that a national advertising campaign that has any hope of getting "share of voice" and influencing broad public opinion would cost AKTI anwhere from $6-10 million. Why? Because we'd have to buy TV time to compete with all the money that McDonalds, Cadillac and all the dot-coms now spend to get people to see and retain their messages.

We can all sit back and craft glorious projects and grand scenarios for AKTI, but somebody has to pay for them and (short of a huge volunteer effort) somebody has to pay the lobbyists, PR agencies, advertising agencies and the most influential broad consumer publications to carry our repeated, constant, never-ending messages.

But let's not get discouraged. The turtles who keep moving slowly forward will outlast the hares who are here today and gone tomorrow. The founding Board of Regents of AKTI have been in this business a long time. AKTI is now officially 3 1/2 years old. And any credible business consultant will tell you that a business that lasts for three years has a darn good chance of surviving long-term.

That's the AKTI goal ... surviving long-term so we can help this industry and the consumers that support it both long-term and short-term.

AKTI is moving forward. We have new programs, new corporate and individual members, and even a new website in the works that we plan to update on a more regular basis.

We invite vigorous dialogue, reasoned input, financial contributions and enthusiastic volunteers.

We do not have the money to give you lots of fancy bells and whistles. Your $35 individual (Ambassador) membership will get you two newsletters per year. And our promise that your membership dollars are not being spent on frivolous items.

Did you know, for example, that every AKTI Board member pays their own expenses to attend our board meetings? And takes valuable time away from their business to do so?

They're working for you. They're working for the entire industry. Support them! Support AKTI! Join AKTI by going to our website at www.akti.org or visiting us at our booth at the upcoming Blade Show.

Sincerely,
David Kowalski
AKTI Cmmunications Coordinator
 
I agree completely that AKTI took the RIGHT tack in working as a friend and ally of law enforcement.

That's not where the problem is here. The problem is in the suggested cure.

OK, I want you folks from ATKI to think about this scenario for a sec:

Cops find an obvious gangbanger hanging out in someplace odd. They think he's a lookout for the drug dealers down the street, but they ain't sure.

So they run his rap sheet. Priors for assault, robbery, drugs and spitting on sidewalk.

And he's got a Buck 110 on him.

Under SB274 in the format worked out by the CDAA, AKTI, etc, he's clean...there's nothing they can do.

Under the "criminal control" version that I've been talking about, where knife carry rights are based on prior criminal misconduct, THEY CAN BUST HIM.

Now, my question to AKTI is, do you really think the "Bladeforums Origin" version of SB274 with "criminal control" features is an impossible sell to law enforcement, given that sort of scenario?

Hell no it's not an impossible sell! Even in the format that allows the law-abiding to carry switchblades, it will have more impact on street crime than even an outright ban on one-handed folders because the reality is, it hurts just as much to get stabbed with a Buck 110 than it does a HALO.

Guys, we can sell the "criminal control" version, especially if we all pull together on this! And we can do it WITHOUT switching to an NRA-style "adversarial relationship" with law enforcement!

Jim
 
Back
Top