All about Dialux Compound, compiled Information - Have info, need more

[Cyber_Demigod]

Dialux and Luxor compounds are pretty high quality, my issue is I don't just use one compound, I use each one in grit/micron order to the finest one - I have been getting very different information on these compounds from sellers, distributors, and the manufacturer website(s) and PDF literature from the manufacturer and sellers.

I will list all the information I gathered here for members of this forum to use, if you have more information on these compounds, please comment below, I will confirm and add info to this as I can.

These images are ripped from the manufacturer websites which show what I am guessing are micron ratings - I cropped them up, and I also pulled info from seller websites that I will list after the images
Images with descriptions BELOW THE IMAGES

DIALUX compound info straight from the manufacturer Osborn

DIALUX compound info and recommended usage and wheels straight from manufacturer Osborn

DIALUX compound info and decently ACCURATE micron ratings for several of them - from Gritomatic - you can find their page on Dialux BY CLICKING THIS TEXT

DIALUX compound info off of the distributor website - it is INACCURATE and I will go into the real details below

LUXOR compound info off of the distributor website

Cropped DIALUX compound info from the distributor site - this is INACCURATE and I will go into the real details below

Cropped LUXOR compound info from the distributor site for printing and hanging in your shop if you find it accurate or useful for reference

Information about DIALUX compounds listed on the seller website Gesswein

Information about LUXOR from distributor site, off of the page for DIALUX - seems like a mistake


As you can see there is quite a bit of info available, and this is just what I found relevant to put here, you may notice that the very rare and uncommon Beige compound is not spoken of in ANY of those images, and I am at a loss as to both what the grit is, and why it is unlisted but I did find out some basic usage. In a lot of the other seller websites that I omitted in the images above there is several more instances of the same info pretty much, here is a section of a text file containing info that I compiled from various sellers, it includes what info I found on the Beige compound

SELECTED FINDINGS

• · Dialux® Orange: 400 Grit - Produces a high luster on soft metals.
  
• · Dialux® Yellow: 600 Grit - Gives a bright finish to soft brass, bronze, and copper
  
• · Dialux® Red: 800 Grit - Super finishing composition for gold.
  
• · Dialux® Gray: 1200 Grit - Finishing composition stainless steel
  
• · Dialux® White: 1500 Grit - For reflective polishing of silver and silver alloys.
  
• · Dialux® Blue: 1800 Grit - Super finishing for all metals and plastics in the dental range
  
• · Dialux® Green: 2000 Grit - Super finishing composition for hard metals (platinum and chrome).
  
• · Dialux® Beige : Unlisted
  
• · Dialux® Black: Unlisted

EBAY

• · RED "ROUGE DE PARIS" - Used for Super Finishing yellow color metals, especially Gold.
  
• · YELLOW "JAUNE" - Bright Shine, buffing compound for Brass, Copper, Bronze, Soft Metals
  
• · BLUE "BLEU DE PARIS" - Used for High Shine finish on all Metals, works very well on Platinum
  
• · WHITE "BLANC" - Bright Polish on White Metals - Silver
  
• · ORANGE "VORNEX" - Remove Scratches, prep surface, Cutting Compound Tripoli
  
• · BLACK "NOIR" - Super Premium Polish on Silver and White Metals
  
• · GREEN "VERT" - Used for Polishing Silver & White Color metals
  
• · GRAY "GRIS" - Cut & Semi-Polish for Stainless and Hard White Color metals.
  
• · BEIGE "VONAX " - Finishing composition for woods, lacquers and plastics. [Different Listing]
  
  
  

THE POLISHING SHOP

• · RED "ROUGE DE PARIS" - Super finishing composition for gold. Use with a soft polishing mop
  
• · YELLOW "JAUNE" - Pre-polishing composition for all non-ferrous metals and plastics. Use with a close stitched colour mop or a white close stitched mop. Also used as a cutting compound for plastics, resins and lacquers. Use a B quality mop. This is a tripoli brown compound.
  
• · BLUE "BLEU DE PARIS" - Super finishing composition for all metals and plastics for dental. Use with soft mops such as G quality.
  
• · WHITE "BLANC" - Finishing composition for all metals and plastics for dental.Use a soft finishing mop such as G, Reflex and WDR quality mops
  
• · ORANGE "VORNEX" - Pre-polishing composition for all ferrous metals. Used with harder mops such as a sisal, close stitched colour or close stitched white mops. This is an emery type compound.
  
• · BLACK "NOIR" - Super finishing composition for silver.
  
• · GREEN "VERT" - Super finishing composition for hard metals (chrome, platinum). Use with soft finishing mops such as G, Reflex and WDR quality
  
• · GRAY "GRIS" - Compound for refreshing Stainless Steel
  
• · BEIGE "VONAX " - Compound for finishing plastics, woods, resins and lacquers. Use with soft finishing mops such as G quality and WDR quality.
  
  

This is the information I have compiled so far and I hope you found it useful, below this is what I am going to state as the relative assumed grit sizes/microns and any miscellaneous info that does not fit above
The grits and info listed below are my estimates and should not be used in your own sharpening or polishing, this is just a guess based on what info I have and is just a possible range, I will be contacting the manufacturer to get an EXACT micron rating on all the compounds if they will divulge the information, I will update this with that info or at least say they told me no.

• 
  
  
  [*]· Dialux® Orange : This is heavy cutting Friable Aluminum Oxide, start with this after sharpening - if you have the micron rating please notify me and I will update this.
  
  
  [*]· Dialux® Gray : 550 Grit/32 Micron - Soft cutting Friable Aluminum Oxide
  
  
  [*]· Dialux® White : 910 Grit/20 Micron - Friable Aluminum Oxide, unsure of this one but it is highly recommended and often stated as a finishing product
  
  
  [*]· Dialux® Blue: 1000 Grit/20 Micron - Friable Aluminum Oxide, also unsure of this, similar to the white.
  
  
  [*]· Dialux® Black: 1500 Grit/12 Micron - This is a fine Friable Aluminum Oxide compound
  
  
  [*] · Dialux® Yellow: 2000 Grit/10 Micron - Soft Friable Tripoli compound, Tripoli is a form of Silica which can cause damage and cancer, so !! WEAR A RESPIRATOR WHILE USING THIS COMPOUND !!
  
  
  [*]· Dialux® Red: This is a relatively fine Friable Iron Oxide compound - if you have the micron rating please notify me and I will update this
  
  
  [*]· Dialux® Green: Friable Chromium Oxide, often stated as one of the finest ones, probably the best green compound on the market - if you have the micron rating please notify me and I will update this
  
  
  [*]· Dialux® Beige: I am guessing this is a Friable compound, it is stated that it should be used on plastic, this might be a the finest one but I need to get my hands on it to test - ANY INFO APPRECIATED
  

I just got my compounds and will be getting some glass and metal sheets to run the compounds over, I will then analyze the scratches with a microscope and measure them to attempt and differ my own grit rating or at least an order in which to use them.

If any of this information is false please notify me. Thank you. :thumbup:

DIALUX compounds are being counterfeited :thumbdn:, you can find these fakes on the same sites that sell counterfeit Chinese knives - the spelling is often wrong on the bars, the coloring is off, often not even looking like the same color as the real bars, and the box looks different and is similar to an older design from Dialux. But this is not a consistent thing as counterfeits go, I have seen some of them that look IDENTICAL

Below are a few images of the counterfeit bars of compound, and then 2 images of the real bars at the very end - BUYER BEWARE

Complete set of COUNTERFEIT bars as seen on a Chinese direct buy site, note the box appearance, bar color, and the fact that that a lot of the boxes do not have the name of the color, instead just saying "Rouge" which is only on the Red compound.
https://s14.postimg.org/m8soybf35/Edited_bars.jpg

Here you can see they did a better COUNTERFEIT job on matching the names to the boxes, and the bars colors match the name (this is not always consistent with the real bars, such as the yellow bar being more of a dark brown in the real deal) - the middle of the boxes and bars look weird in some spots because I colored over a website name and patched over it as well, made it look as good as I could without spending too much time on it , the reason I did that is I did not want to advertise on Bladeforums, especially a website selling the counterfeit one.

Here is the same batch but a close up on the COUNTERFEIT boxes without the bars, also has had the name removed

Here is an example of them getting the COUNTERFEIT spelling wrong on the bar, examples include OALUX, LUX, DALUX, etc...


Below are a few images of the actual bars

These are the REAL bars sold by Gesswein, the Orange bar/Vornex is not shown, so I will provide an image of just that bar next

This is the REAL Orange/Vornex bar out of the McCaw Catalog, adding to the set from the image above, note how dark it is compared to the orange shown on the box, then compare the colors to the fakes, now you know.

This is the REAL Beige/Vonax bar out of its packaging, I don't have an image of the box and I have not seen it counterfeited but I put it here to be thourough. Image from The Polishing Shop

Another REAL Beige/Bonax bar out of its packaging, for reference of possible color, as it looks slightly different from the other image. From EBAY

 

[Gritomatic]

I will be contacting the manufacturer to get an EXACT micron rating on all the compounds if they will divulge the information, I will update this with that info or at least say they told me no.

Great work! If you need contacts in Osborn (Dialux manufacturer) and Merard (Luxor manufacturer), I can share with you.
Osborn does not like comparison of Dialux with competitors in term of microns. They say that Dialux with relatively big average size has with ability to crack down to its primary crystal size of ~2µm. It's good for belt grinders but not for manual stropping.

 

[Cyber_Demigod]

Great work!

Thanks this took me a while to put together, once I get my subscription I'll put it in my Signature too.
I started this real small, and I went to your site and went to your grit chart to see if you had them listed on there to no luck, but found the info you had which seemed better than what Osborn has on their own websites.

If you need contacts in Osborn (Dialux manufacturer) and Merard (Luxor manufacturer), I can share with you.

Thanks for the offer, That would be great! Do you want me to email you or give you my contact i so you can send it to me privately or?

I found your info the most reliable or rather the most believable, it only lacked the relative micron grain size ratings for the Green, Red and Orange - and I do not see the Beige listed at all but that is not really an official compound anymore I think, it might be produced under a different label but I only found it on ebay, and two others sites so I could not give much more info.
Thanks for providing it in the first place, I gave you credit for the info from your site, since your an official seller/distributor I can provide a link to your site under the image if you would like?

Osborn does not like comparison of Dialux with competitors in term of microns.

The "Grits" that I listed in my estimations were my own conversions of your info that I rounded up/down, I hoped they would at least give people - You can't really compare compounds from most manufacturers as most are so different, sort of like cooking or beer - they all are food/beer and are similar in purpose but can very in recipe while looking exactly the same, but Dialux compounds seem to be some of the best compounds you can get, worth every penny - I just wish more places would sell them I would also love to see a "No Scratch" compound from them, that just buffs without any grain to it - if that is what those do, not a lot of info on those either - if they came out with a line of compounds intended for stropping I would buy them instantly. I am sure every knife maker would too. Other compounds are fine of course, rarely are they useless. I am not a big fan of ENKAY compounds, they work but the bar composition promotes a lot of waste. The exact opposite of DIALUX

They say that Dialux with relatively big average size has with ability to crack down to its primary crystal size of ~2µm.

Are you saying that all the Dialux compounds are Friable? Or just some? That's awesome, it causes the buffing to really start to refine the more you use it from that application, so you can go from Cutting, shining, slight polishing or buffing and slowly move to a finer cut or even a more refined mirror polish. At least that is how I imagine it. If they are ALL friable, then I can really limit the number of compounds I use to strop or polish - I might not always do this for Stropping but polishing for sure.

It's good for belt grinders but not for manual stropping.

I do strop with the compounds and buff/polish, but I do them in order of micron/grit as if they were stones. I find this works best, and it can't hurt really.

 

[HeavyHanded]

I find most compound manufacturers don't normally give out micron size on the product, simply describing its intended use and on what steels.

If you have access to a high power microscope, you can break down a sample of the compound in question on a glass slide, using a drop of mineral oil or immersion oil if purity is paramount. 1000x Optical microscopes can resolve down to about .25 micron though not with any real info about how sharp the corners are etc, but size definitely. This gives a good idea of average size and if there is a deliberate combination of grit - only two main sizes, or a wide distribution of sizes for some of the low budget stuff.

Some of the more widely used woodworkers' compound use a multi grit strategy for honing.

I've done this to a number of compounds, its surprising how uniform even the cheaper ones are in terms of size distribution.

 

[Cyber_Demigod]

I have a 500X electric microscope I use to sharpen, any idea on an affordable microscope that would work for this?

 

[pjwoolw]

I have a stick of the Dialux white. Had it for years. Recently I've been using it on a felt belt to finish garden tools. Very shiny finish and a bit greasy for all around use. After all its meant for jewelry. For an all around white stick compound I still think the BRKT stuff about as good as it gets. From a sharpening standpoint.

 

[Gritomatic]

Are you saying that all the Dialux compounds are Friable? Or just some?

As far as I understood Osborn, all of them are friable. Please send me your email address here by PM (or using gritomatic.com). I will give you contacts and technical excerpts from my conversation with Osborn.

 

[HeavyHanded]

I have a 500X electric microscope I use to sharpen, any idea on an affordable microscope that would work for this?

The one I use is the shop's, it cost about $800. I imagine a cheaper one might be in the range of $400 - it needs to accept a numerical aperture of 1.25 to resolve down to 1000x.

If you wanted to send me a small amount I could probably take a look-see.

As for the friability factor, used manually I am very dubious that it will break down much - you just aren't liable to generate the kinds of force needed to do so, even on relatively friable materials like green Silicon Carbide. Is possible but unlikely. I suspect you'd have to use it in a slurry on hardwood, even then...

 

[Cyber_Demigod]

The one I use is the shop's, it cost about $800. I imagine a cheaper one might be in the range of $400 - it needs to accept a numerical aperture of 1.25 to resolve down to 1000x.

If you wanted to send me a small amount I could probably take a look-see.

As for the friability factor, used manually I am very dubious that it will break down much - you just aren't liable to generate the kinds of force needed to do so, even on relatively friable materials like green Silicon Carbide. Is possible but unlikely. I suspect you'd have to use it in a slurry on hardwood, even then...

I will have to invest in a good microscope soon, it has not been on the top of my list but it is certainly there, right now I am leaning towards getting the Hapstone system and a few other things.
I could send you some of each, how much would you want me to send?

Flitz is Friable with just using a cloth - any idea what is in there? If only there was a measurement system for the friability of any particular substance.

 

[Cyber_Demigod]

As far as I understood Osborn, all of them are friable. Please send me your email address here by PM (or using gritomatic.com). I will give you contacts and technical excerpts from my conversation with Osborn.

Ok I just sent you a message on your site, under Cyber_Demigod with my name after it as well
I don't have a subscription on this website yet so I cannot send PM's

I have a stick of the Dialux white. Had it for years. Recently I've been using it on a felt belt to finish garden tools. Very shiny finish and a bit greasy for all around use. After all its meant for jewelry. For an all around white stick compound I still think the BRKT stuff about as good as it gets. From a sharpening standpoint.

I just wish Bark River offered more than just the 3 compounds, (Black 3000 grit, green 6000 grit, and white 12000 grit) nothing wrong with that, I just like my steps smaller, but I will certainly give them a try them out. Any idea what the composition of those is or is that one of those trade secret types of compounds?

 

[HeavyHanded]

I will have to invest in a good microscope soon, it has not been on the top of my list but it is certainly there, right now I am leaning towards getting the Hapstone system and a few other things.
I could send you some of each, how much would you want me to send?

Flitz is Friable with just using a cloth - any idea what is in there? If only there was a measurement system for the friability of any particular substance.

It doesn't take much, maybe a pinch or a small shaving off the block. The important part is getting it into a clean baggie or similar so there's no contamination.

Again, I'm very dubious Flitz is breaking down with just a cloth. Something might be happening, larger clumps or agglomerations breaking down, the sharpest corners cracking off or dulling. Any material that is so friable as to break down physically under the pressure of a cloth would have the integrity of talc. Pretty sure Flitz uses a form of Aluminum Oxide.

I'm not saying it isn't possible, just that it doesn't sound likely.


Something to keep in mind, the BRKT black (upper pic below) listed as 3000 grit contains abrasive in a range from about 12 micron up to 30. The range the Mfg gives out is at best an estimate unless you're getting it from an in-house mixer. Even then, the materials come from somewhere else, probably in 5 gallon buckets or steel drums.

Materials don't have to be uniform to get good results for honing, though it certainly helps for cosmetic polishing. In my experience the particle size distribution tends to shrink as the materials become more fine. The lower pic is some Ryobi white, size distribution looks like about .5 up to just under 1 micron.

Edit to add:
Most commercial block compounds intended for steel are Aluminum Oxide in a stearine binder (animal/veg tallow). The green compounds tend to be Chromium Oxide. Flexcut Gold and the Lee Valley Green both use a mutli-size grit strategy. The Formax microhoning compound sold at Woodcraft is single grit .5 micron. Materials smaller than that I cannot see with my microscope. Also, the presentation of the abrasive makes a huge contribution to how the scratch is created. Harder surfaces, stiffer binders make more pronounced scratch than a softer surface or a more mobile abrasive. A lot of what makes a given compound work better than another for a given application will come down to the binder and how the abrasive is applied to the steel.

 

[pjwoolw]

I just wish Bark River offered more than just the 3 compounds, (Black 3000 grit, green 6000 grit, and white 12000 grit) nothing wrong with that, I just like my steps smaller, but I will certainly give them a try them out. Any idea what the composition of those is or is that one of those trade secret types of compounds?

I'm not sure about the accuracy of the ratings. No idea on the composition. If you want tighter progressions for stropping go with CBN and or diamond products. Of course as with bar compounds all CBN and diamond products are not created equal so choose wisely if you go in that direction.

 

[cap'njake]

Thanks for all the info I actually just ordered some dialux green to try polishing up my knives. Was thinking of trying a balsa wood strop with it too. Has anybody done this?

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[fsatsil]

ive never tried it on balsa but I've been using Dialux Vert for years on leather and it works very well.

 

[Cyber_Demigod]

It doesn't take much, maybe a pinch or a small shaving off the block. The important part is getting it into a clean baggie or similar so there's no contamination.

Again, I'm very dubious Flitz is breaking down with just a cloth. Something might be happening, larger clumps or agglomerations breaking down, the sharpest corners cracking off or dulling. Any material that is so friable as to break down physically under the pressure of a cloth would have the integrity of talc. Pretty sure Flitz uses a form of Aluminum Oxide.

I'm not saying it isn't possible, just that it doesn't sound likely.

I'll probably send more than enough, that way you can also use some for your self and see how you like it and it gives you both room for error, and enough to where you can go for whatever is in the center (in the event that contamination is suspected although I will be as close to sterile as physically possible) . How would you like to go about swapping contact info?

I'll be asking how friable their compounds are exactly, as well as maybe getting some info on the binder they use - I am sure it is some sort of waxy substance with some coloring. May be a different one with the Tripoli compound but I have no idea as of yet.

Thanks for your info and input it's very helpful and informative.

I'm not sure about the accuracy of the ratings. No idea on the composition. If you want tighter progressions for stropping go with CBN and or diamond products. Of course as with bar compounds all CBN and diamond products are not created equal so choose wisely if you go in that direction.

I intend to do something like that, with like KME diamond emulsion and various strops including nanocloth - all one step at a time of course. I've got so much I still want to try
Have you used diamond paste/drops/spray/emulsion or anything like that yourself?

 

[pjwoolw]

Have you used diamond paste/drops/spray/emulsion or anything like that yourself?

Extensively. CBN and diamond are all I use anymore for knives and other finer items. Send me an email, since I can't PM or email you through the forum, and I can get back to you with what I would suggest. acmesharpening@gmail.com

Its fun to experiment with different stick compounds. Part of the study of sharpening and learning whats best for you.

 

[HeavyHanded]

I'll probably send more than enough, that way you can also use some for your self and see how you like it and it gives you both room for error, and enough to where you can go for whatever is in the center (in the event that contamination is suspected although I will be as close to sterile as physically possible) . How would you like to go about swapping contact info?

I'll be asking how friable their compounds are exactly, as well as maybe getting some info on the binder they use - I am sure it is some sort of waxy substance with some coloring. May be a different one with the Tripoli compound but I have no idea as of yet.

Thanks for your info and input it's very helpful and informative.

You can contact me through email on my website contact page, linked below in my signature.

The address listed there will work fine for a 'ship-to' location too.

 

[cap'njake]

Well I got the green dialux in and put it on some balsa and it works amazing. I am very impressed with both the compound and the balsa.

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[Cyber_Demigod]

Well I got the green dialux in and put it on some balsa and it works amazing. I am very impressed with both the compound and the balsa.

How easy did it go on to the Balsa? Did you try any other compounds in the line up?

 

[cap'njake]

No not yet and it went on surprisingly smooth. I figured I would end up using a heat gun to warm the surface but it wasn't needed. I actually got a 3x3x12 block of balsa and cut it up into 1-1/2x 6 sections giving me 8 blocks of balsa and put the compound on all of them. I kept one and used the rest as gifts for a few friends and family.

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