Almost totally primitive arrows

H

halo2

Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
299
I'm continuing my stone tool experiments. The goal is to make a bow and arrow set and successfully hunt with it. I am pretty much self taught on the construction but have the Traditional Bowyer's Bible II and other references. I'm always looking for suggestions on the how-to. So far, it's been fun.

I started wth this thread on working with stone to cut arrow shafts. Here's the arrows.

arrow02.jpg


Each starts with a local cherry shaft. We have a lot of new growth of the stuff and it's easy to cut, debark and notch for points and nocking. Note that the shafts are different thicknesses. I have other shafts that I cut that are closer in size and will be making more.

Stone flakes were used to debark and notch the arrow shafts. I did some straightening but didn't use fire or heat, just bending. They're OK for straightness for a 30 foot shot maximum.

The points are NY state chert, called Normanskill. I made a copper pressure flaker instead of an antler one, so they're not totally primitive. It knaps well even though I'm not a great knapper. I can make a flake for a small knife and pressure flake that to a point, but that's about it. These points are basically small so-called "bird" points and I hope to use them on rabbits. These aren't really sharp but if driven by a 30# bow would work on small game, IMO.

The points are set in notches carved out with small struck blades. Very time consuming to do the notching. I glued them in place with pitch made by boiling pine sap. In one case (the upper arrow) used straight sap. It lost most of its stickiness over the course of a week or two. Each tip is wrapped with thin cordage.One is milkweed and one is evening primrose. I prefer milkweed. It seems stronger, but the evening primrose would do in a pinch.

arrow01.jpg


The fletching is feathers "gathered" from a craft store. I had wanted to do this with a totally primitive/gathered local material, but got impatient. The feathers are also lashed with milkweed & evening primrose cordage and coated with pitch for final securing.

I'm working on the bow now. It was going to be done totally with stone tools, but I started with a hatchet for time's sake. Maybe I'll go back and do another one with stone tools wheh I have the time.

I've checked the regulations and can't hunt deer with these arrows, but rabbit is OK.

Hope you enjoyed!
 
Really nice job :thumbup: Taking it back to primitive is hard to do in this age, but it can be so rewarding and fun to do. Those are some great arrows, looking forward to seeing your bow.
 
This is excellent. You will want sharp stone broadheads, for hunting.

I'm a gun hunter, though, and only remember that from hunter's ed, many years ago.

Good luck with this project. When you shoot some of these, it would be fun to see it done on Youtube.

CHEERS
 
Erasmus said:
This is excellent. You will want sharp stone broadheads, for hunting.
Click to expand...

Thanks all.

I'm a gun/archery hunter too. You can hunt with blunt arrows in my area for small game. Some tests with a #20 bow show penetration of 8-9" on a hard styrofoam target at 30 feet.

Still, you're right. To make a clean kill, I'll be touching these arrows up. If they don't "make the cut," I won't hunt with them.
 
very nice.. those came out great...:thumbup: i have a bunch of hazel shafts i have been meaning to make primitive arrows out of...
 
Nice work and thanks for sharing. If you add some ash and/or tallow to the pitch it will dry harder with less stickiness.
 
Great work, really great work.
Did anyone see the mythbusters when they tested simply sharpened shafts versus Stone tips..the only difference was the assumed blood loss.
In other words, sharpened sticks fly just as straight as arrows with tips.
And penetrate flesh equally as well.
I thought that bone was a factor they missed, but otherwise...I was pretty surprised at the results.
 
that's awesome!

those heads should work just fine on small game like bunnies and hare.
 
gunknifenut said:
Great work, really great work.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Gene.

gunknifenut said:
Did anyone see the mythbusters when they tested simply sharpened shafts versus Stone tips..the only difference was the assumed blood loss.
In other words, sharpened sticks fly just as straight as arrows with tips.
And penetrate flesh equally as well.
I thought that bone was a factor they missed, but otherwise...I was pretty surprised at the results.
Click to expand...

I missed that one, but it doesn't surprise me at short range. I think one survival instructor (Mears? Stroud?) said the same.
 
Really neat. I want to do this myself. How about mixing the pitch with charcoal. I understand it makes the "glue" far stronger.
 
first off, good luck in your project.
here's my advice, the pitch got brittle because you boiled it to long. try just heating it up to liquid, or until it flows like syrup.(maybe just a little thinner). not sure where you are located but if you got wild cherry and maple trees in your area and milk weed, my guess is you have dogbane too.(indian hemp looks exactly like dogbane, just taller and doesn't grow in clumps, it seems just as strong to me) its a LOT stronger than milk weed. try that. now when you use the pitch take some of the cordage,(the dogbane cordage) and cut it into short pieces,(1/2-3/4) and put that into your pitch it will hold it together allot better.
some here mentioned char coal and ashes in your pitch, I've never tried this, but the cordage works, well.
As for penetration, try to make the transition from point to shaft as smooth as possible, no angles just a nice flow from point to shaft, its pretty easy with the pitch.
as for fletches, go to the park, there should be duck and goose feathers every where this time of year.
as far as the myth busters thing, people have used all kinds of points over the years, seems to me that someone would have figured out a long time ago that a sharp stick worked as well if it actually did. an animal, as in small game isn't a foam target and will not react the same,IE, penetration. you will not get penetration with a blunt on say a squirrel or raccoon, maybe a rabbit(thin skin) but not anything else.YMMV.
good luck, have fun.
 
What a terrific challenge you've set for yourself. Best of luck with the harvest; hopefully you will find plenty to shoot at!

The trouble I had with knapping was getting a point thin enough to mount well and sharp enough to kill. Have you considered sinew for mounting? Good strong stuff that makes it easier to create a low profile lashing.

For small game, what I ended up doing was using the most appropriate looking small flake- which you should have a lot of. They're thin and very sharp! (and easy to prep for mounting) It is legal here to hunt large game with stone points if they are of same dimensions as legal broadheads; an achievement beyond my skills

Before I learned better I shot several small critters with field points. It doesn't take too long to realize penetration alone is not pretty. I imagine if your points are not very sharp you may end up playing the same game of chase.
 
My paternal grandad was half (or more) Sioux and born on the great plains in 1850. He used to tell us kids stories of his early life. I paid close attention when he described how they straightened arrow shafts. They cut the straightest limbs they could find, usually willow, but used other available woods too. After peeling, they soaked the 'shafts to be' in water for a day or two, then suspended them from a tree limb or support of some kind, one end of each tied to the support and the other tied to a heavy rock. Then they built a smoky fire underneath and left the shafts to heat/smoke dry and be pulled straight for hours, replenshing the fire as needed. He said such shafts were tough and stayed straight provided you kept them greased or oiled. Gramps, BTW, fought at Custer's battle on the winning side in 1876 when he was 26. He later went 'white man' and died in Los Angeles in 1955 at age 105. He was quite a character and I remember him well. How's that for a stretch of history? Pre Civil War to post Korean conflict! I need 29 more years to equal his age when he died so I'm working on it. Anyway, good luck with the arrows and the hunting.
 
Your arrow heads might now be big enough for the shaft size for best arrow flight. Also, you want to save the sinew from any animals you get for hafting. As to durability, my stone arrow heads lasted until I lost them. I shot them into the ground, thru cardboard, in foam targets, etc praticing a few summers.

Take a look at www.tradgang.com and you'll be amazed at the skill level and success one can achive with primitive equipment.
 
jw2n said:
Really neat. I want to do this myself. How about mixing the pitch with charcoal. I understand it makes the "glue" far stronger.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I haven't tried binders, but am curious to see how pure pitch makes out, especially multiple shots.

heresthedeal said:
first off, good luck in your project.
here's my advice, the pitch got brittle because you boiled it to long. try just heating it up to liquid, or until it flows like syrup.(maybe just a little thinner). not sure where you are located but if you got wild cherry and maple trees in your area and milk weed, my guess is you have dogbane too.(indian hemp looks exactly like dogbane, just taller and doesn't grow in clumps, it seems just as strong to me) its a LOT stronger than milk weed. try that. now when you use the pitch take some of the cordage,(the dogbane cordage) and cut it into short pieces,(1/2-3/4) and put that into your pitch it will hold it together allot better.
some here mentioned char coal and ashes in your pitch, I've never tried this, but the cordage works, well.
As for penetration, try to make the transition from point to shaft as smooth as possible, no angles just a nice flow from point to shaft, its pretty easy with the pitch.
as for fletches, go to the park, there should be duck and goose feathers every where this time of year.
as far as the myth busters thing, people have used all kinds of points over the years, seems to me that someone would have figured out a long time ago that a sharp stick worked as well if it actually did. an animal, as in small game isn't a foam target and will not react the same,IE, penetration. you will not get penetration with a blunt on say a squirrel or raccoon, maybe a rabbit(thin skin) but not anything else.YMMV.
good luck, have fun.
Click to expand...

Lots of good advice here. Dogbane + pitch = primitive micarta? I sort of already did something like that by giving my binding a good coating of pitch. Everything seems to hold so far and this is an experiment, but good stuff. Thanks.

Briarbrow said:
What a terrific challenge you've set for yourself. Best of luck with the harvest; hopefully you will find plenty to shoot at!

The trouble I had with knapping was getting a point thin enough to mount well and sharp enough to kill. Have you considered sinew for mounting? Good strong stuff that makes it easier to create a low profile lashing.

For small game, what I ended up doing was using the most appropriate looking small flake- which you should have a lot of. They're thin and very sharp! (and easy to prep for mounting) It is legal here to hunt large game with stone points if they are of same dimensions as legal broadheads; an achievement beyond my skills

Before I learned better I shot several small critters with field points. It doesn't take too long to realize penetration alone is not pretty. I imagine if your points are not very sharp you may end up playing the same game of chase.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm still way on the learning curve, but hunting ethically is important to me. I have a lot of flakes around. Some are my tools for the project.

Old CW4 said:
My paternal grandad was half (or more) Sioux and born on the great plains in 1850. He used to tell us kids stories of his early life. I paid close attention when he described how they straightened arrow shafts. They cut the straightest limbs they could find, usually willow, but used other available woods too. After peeling, they soaked the 'shafts to be' in water for a day or two, then suspended them from a tree limb or support of some kind, one end of each tied to the support and the other tied to a heavy rock. Then they built a smoky fire underneath and left the shafts to heat/smoke dry and be pulled straight for hours, replenshing the fire as needed. He said such shafts were tough and stayed straight provided you kept them greased or oiled. Gramps, BTW, fought at Custer's battle on the winning side in 1876 when he was 26. He later went 'white man' and died in Los Angeles in 1955 at age 105. He was quite a character and I remember him well. How's that for a stretch of history? Pre Civil War to post Korean conflict! I need 29 more years to equal his age when he died so I'm working on it. Anyway, good luck with the arrows and the hunting.
Click to expand...


Great story, OCW and great advice. I'm hoping to get more arrow shafts in the fall and to make more arrows in the next few months. gottamake that bow, too ...

cultivateitnow said:
Your arrow heads might now be big enough for the shaft size for best arrow flight. Also, you want to save the sinew from any animals you get for hafting. As to durability, my stone arrow heads lasted until I lost them. I shot them into the ground, thru cardboard, in foam targets, etc praticing a few summers.

Take a look at www.tradgang.com and you'll be amazed at the skill level and success one can achive with primitive equipment.
Click to expand...

Thanks - I've checked out a lot of resources includin tradgang. I intend to practice a bit and you're right, I'm not sure how these will fly.

I'll keep you posted.
 
heresthedeal said:
first off, good luck in your project.
here's my advice, the pitch got brittle because you boiled it to long. try just heating it up to liquid, or until it flows like syrup.(maybe just a little thinner). not sure where you are located but if you got wild cherry and maple trees in your area and milk weed, my guess is you have dogbane too.(indian hemp looks exactly like dogbane, just taller and doesn't grow in clumps, it seems just as strong to me) its a LOT stronger than milk weed. try that. now when you use the pitch take some of the cordage,(the dogbane cordage) and cut it into short pieces,(1/2-3/4) and put that into your pitch it will hold it together allot better.
some here mentioned char coal and ashes in your pitch, I've never tried this, but the cordage works, well.
As for penetration, try to make the transition from point to shaft as smooth as possible, no angles just a nice flow from point to shaft, its pretty easy with the pitch.
as for fletches, go to the park, there should be duck and goose feathers every where this time of year.
as far as the myth busters thing, people have used all kinds of points over the years, seems to me that someone would have figured out a long time ago that a sharp stick worked as well if it actually did. an animal, as in small game isn't a foam target and will not react the same,IE, penetration. you will not get penetration with a blunt on say a squirrel or raccoon, maybe a rabbit(thin skin) but not anything else.YMMV.
good luck, have fun.
Click to expand...

I would have thought the same thing, but low and behold..the sharpened stick arrows shot just as accurately and penetrated a ballistic jelly torso within an inch of the knapped counter part.
I believe the head is to prolong the life of the arrown and cause more bleeding...which is a must!
 
Arrows kill by pushing a sharp cutting edge through the animal, which sets the stage for massive hemmorhage. Dull cutting edges don't cut, they just push the meat out of the way. Like when we saw away at a raw piece of meat with a dull knife.

Small game blunts? I dunno exactly how they kill, won't be blood loss, though.

Ya know, Indians made iron arrow heads, too. Might be fun to take "found" sheet iron, and try your hand at making iron broadheads, too.

Good luck with this. Sounds like you'll have to have lots of patience.
 
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