Altoid Survival Kits missing the most important item

jimh0220

jimh0220

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Apr 15, 2008
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So I've read about the altoid tin survival kits everybody likes to flaunt as 'complete' survival kits in a tin. Watched a bunch of the You Tubes as well. So there seems to be a few common items: cordage for snares, fishing gear for the big fishing haul, as well as a minimal way to start fire, like 1 or 2 matches, or a tiny ferro rod. Those are all great. What seem to be missing, or pathetically inadequate, in most of these kits is...... water purification! Maybe 2 purification tabs might make it in a few kits, but that's it. The explanation: I'll boil water in the tin! To keep yourself even remotely hydrated with the quantity of water a tin would hold would require boiling tin after tin almost constantly. 2 tablets to purify water would be better, but used in no time. Instead of so many options for catching a meal, why not focus on more water purifying. A small lab vial or bottle with Iodine or bleach would go a lot farther. 10 tablet would be far superior to snares. You can go a lot longer with water and no food the food with no water.

What are your ideas?
 
I rarely visit this forum, and caught this on the "new posts" page, but:

I'm interested to hear folks chime in on this...

I would like to find out how much bleach is needed per gallon of water, and same for Iodine. What sort of supply would you recommend?

Sorry for the noobie questions. Just something I haven't taken the time to think about.
 
Good point, people forget how much calories you would burn in just a hike or overnight building shelters, chopping and processing wood, gathering materials, etc. Those kits have stuff to gather food, but if you're stranded for the amount of time where you can trap and fish then you're going to new water and lots of it. You can survive quite a long time without good, everyone is different so I don't go by the whole "7 days" thing, some people may give up and die when hunger kicks in. Dehydration sets in a lot faster than hunger and it's much more dangerous.

I've never carried water purification tabs just because my water bottle/cup kit can boil a substantial amount of water if I had to, and anytime I go somewhere where I plan to be there for a whole I have a three in one pan set that still fits a bunch of other stuff. I just throw that in my pack, and they work very well. But even then I carry enough water where I've really never had to boil a lot of it.
 
Daniel Dorn said:
I rarely visit this forum, and caught this on the "new posts" page, but:

I'm interested to hear folks chime in on this...

I would like to find out how much bleach is needed per gallon of water, and same for Iodine. What sort of supply would you recommend?

Sorry for the noobie questions. Just something I haven't taken the time to think about.
Click to expand...
The water purification tabs I've seen tell you specifically how much water they are meant for. Some them like chlorine you want to make sure the measurement is right, so it's good I have a container with measurements on it or know how much it holds off the top of your head. Things like iodine though you can't really go too wrong, unless you have an allergy or are pregnant. I'm not really an expert on water purification products but I'm pretty sure they tell you, so the hard part is knowing how much water you actually have, too much and it won't purify/too little and it could be toxic.
 
1 Gallon water is disinfected by 8-16 drops of regular household bleach (visually about 1/4 of a teaspoon) - double that for cloudy water. Shake and let stand 30 minutes. One teaspoon will disinfect 5 gallons. Immediately after treating, water must initially have a slight smell of chlorine. If it does not - repeat the process.

a small dropper bottle or vial (easily found in 1, 2, 4 dram sizes, and larger), would still fit in a tin and go a lot further than 1 gallon of water. Probably at least 3 gallons, which is a much better start to purifying water.
 
I do not carry an altoids tin, but agree with your priority of water.

I carry a small "murse" from home/car/work. Anytime I am heading outdoors, I grab my "Nalgene" kit. Both have a tough antistatic bag(like computer components come in) for dirty water, coffee filters for straining and a small bottle of aqua pure tabs.- takes about as much space as a deck of cards.

But that really dq's me for the altoids argument.

Bill
 
You will not die from not eating for quite a while. You will not usually become seriously ill from drinking untreated water for several days, at least not from any pathogen or biological that might be taken care of by iodine, chlorine or other sanitizer. How long do you expect to have to survive out of your little tin box pocket kit? Serious question.
 
Codger_64 said:
You will not die from not eating for quite a while. You will not usually become seriously ill from drinking untreated water for several days, at least not from any pathogen or biological that might be taken care of by iodine, chlorine or other sanitizer. How long do you expect to have to survive out of your little tin box pocket kit? Serious question.
Click to expand...

A altoid tin is so insufficient to carry even the basic needs, I don't see a point in them, except that some folks will carry them because they are never going to carry a full sized kit. I have always found them intriguing, to see if there is a viable option out there. So far, have yet to find one that can replace my kit. It takes a full fanny pack to carry mine.
 
Carry what you feel you need to carry for your situation. Not what happens to fit in a trendy container.
 
"How long do you expect to have to survive out of your little tin box pocket kit? Serious question. "

Codger- that is an excellent topic in and of itself. One I consider when packing for any outing- a hike, working outdoors or long trip. Anything less than 48 hours and I am "surviving" the elements and injury as long as I can be fairly stationary and wait for help. If I have to move, calories and water become more important- I am hypoglycemic and dehydration affects judgement long before death becomes a concern. If much more than 48 hours, I do NOT want dysentary. Have spent time in the woods with it and it drags a body down fast, especially if intake is limited. I admit much more than 48 hours is unlikely but a consideration.

Bill
 
I don't really see the point to MOST altoids kits. Some are good and pretty smart. Most are not. For me, a quart sized ziploc is as small a kit as I can get. Anything smaller and I just don't see the point. There's a few things that I carry all the time like a knife, fire starter, whistle and a few bandaids but my survival gear beyond that just doesn't fit into an altoids tin.
 
I suggest that people with medical issues need to carry a kit, of whatever size, that addresses their specific medical needs. And plan/limit their activities so as to reduce the chances of vapor-locking far from help. I have issues myself and have had to adapt just as I suggest. There are places I cannot go and things I cannot do. And I do carry medications/communications in case I find myself in distress.

Now specific to fear of drinking contaminated water, the symptoms of giardiasis don't appear until 7-10 days after you've been infected, although sometimes it can take up to three weeks before it shows. What other specific biologic contaminents do you fear?
 
The "tin" or "pocket" kit was explained to me like this. It is an absolute last ditch kit of handy items that can be carried in a cargo pocket of your pants. It is for times when you wander away from camp without your pack or maybe you become separated from your pack in a canoe accident, etc. The kit is small and light so it never becomes a burden and it's something you don't mind carrying. It is a supplement to real supplies and tools. I think many people have taken this to the extreme and have forgotten the true purpose of a "tin" kit. They try to make it the end all kit that will help them survive forever in the woods. Negative!
 
My two best friends are twin brothers, both diabetic, they always have their medical supplies ready and available as well as alternatives. It's just a real example of being prepared every day no matter where you are. And it kind of makes me chuckle at the altoid tins filled with fishing gear and snare traps. There are so many other things that come before food that you have to make sure you take care of. How long are you lost for where you didn't bring a pack and only carried an altoid tin? And how long are you planning on lasting without medicine/water/etc if you were in a survival situation? I think you really have to look at priorities as well as just be prepared before you leave for something, just like a diabetic carries his pack of insulin and needles everywhere he or she goes.
 
Good topic. I agree that the tins should not be "the kit" but simply part of or a suppliment to "the kit". Personally, I only use them for a fire kit. It includes a lighter, matches, firesteel, jute, pj cotton, char, and a little fatwood. It is not a survival kit but a means to keep these items in one location within my gear. I carry a small trauma kit in my pocket because I believe that blood loss, as a result of an accident, will be the prominent threat if I become seperated from my pack. In fact, aside from an injury, there are very few situations that would result in me being seperated from my gear. Of course, this works form me and "only me" and should be based on the location and type of activity that an individual is involved in. I take precautions before my trip, such as letting people know what area I will be in and when I plan to return, so that a sustained survival situation is somewhat unrealistic. I really can't see myself being stranded for more then 12 hrs before help arrives so food, water, etc is not really a big factor. I'll bleed to death in four minutes from arterial bleeding without a means to stop it.
 
My tin is a little bigger than an altoids tin, but it's sized that way because I carry two one liter water bags rolled up and typically ~8 water purification tablets. I decided what my needs were and that is what dictated my container -- and having something to hold water was a priority. The bags that hold a liter are nice because I don't have to divide up purification tablets like you would typically have to do with smaller bags (ie gerber breastmilk bags)

Originally I felt the altoids tin was too small, so I carried a larger tobacco tin (much like the "SAS" tin). I was able to cram a TON of stuff in there but it was so heavy and bulky that it was uncomfortable to carry in a cargo pocket. A belt pouch maybe.

So... instead of a stand alone kit (which is what it originally was) I decided to make the kit a supplement to my EDC. That enabled me to carry the vital things I wanted to carry and I could use a thinner tin. In this case, a gift card tin from Steak and Shake is about perfect -- it's the same length and width as the SAS survival tin, but the same depth as an altoids tin.

tin3t.jpg



tin1d.jpg


tin2.jpg



I wanted the smallest container plausible that would contain these items:
-Water containers and purification
-Means to make shelter (via pocket saw)
-A useful knife.
-Backup means to make fire along with tinder

Everything else was nice to have, and I was able to add quite a few other things that may prove useful (including duct tape, fishing line, flashlight, compass, signal mirror and other misc items) but the point is decide what you want it to do first then decide how to carry it, not the other way around. Now the tin is thin and light enough I'll actually carry it... and I will usually stuff some sort of shelter in my cargo pocket too (emergency bivvy, heatsheets, small tarp, etc) that I can have on me at all times when I don't have my pack.

My current setup is still in progress, but essentially it's
-EDC
-Survival stuff in one cargo pocket (tin, shelter, bugnet, etc)
-Medical stuff in another cargo pocket (blowout kit for serious injury, the booboo kit is in my bag)

Those three things I'd take regardless of if I'm planning a dayhike or a longer journey and will stay on me. Beyond that, I'd carry a pack with my regular items incl shelter, nalgene bottle or canteen with cup and stove, hygiene kit, and so on with pack size dictated by estimated duration of trip.
 
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jimh0220 said:
A altoid tin is so insufficient to carry even the basic needs, I don't see a point in them, except that some folks will carry them because they are never going to carry a full sized kit. I have always found them intriguing, to see if there is a viable option out there. So far, have yet to find one that can replace my kit. It takes a full fanny pack to carry mine.
Click to expand...

I have to respectfully disagree in that an Altoids kit shouldn't replace a BOB or dayhike kit. Rather it IMHO should be used for a small possibilities pouch or last ditch item when the irresistible force known a entropy has gotten the upper hand aka kit was washed down river, burned, stolen etc etc etc. Before I go on an Altoids thread with out photos isn't all that fun....








Ok now with that out of the way lets review how it could help.

A. Fire. Yes I have the skills to do friction fire. I can use my carbon steel knife and a few types of natural tinder to get a coal but is this something that can be depended on? Not IMHO however even my standard Altoids tin has multiple ways to start a fire.

1. 6 large strike anywhere matches in small plastic bag.
2. 1 backpacker szied mag/ferro block, USA made. Tinder and firesteel in one package.
3. Hacksaw blade.
4. Charcoth in small plastic bag.
5. Compressed cotton tinder.

That is 3 ways to start a fire plus 2 sources of tinder, not including the BandAid and anti bacterial cream packet both flammable. Yes I am getting a fire going and that's a good thing.

B. Cutting.

1. There is a small SAK. Will it take down a tree? No but I used the tweezers to remove a splinter during a camping trip. Also the blade is sharp. :)

C. Cordage.

1. About 12+ feet of fishing line wrapped around a larger plastic bag.
2. About 12+ feet of nylon cordage whipped on the outside. I went with it over paracord because that made the kit too thick for the leather pouch to comfortable remove.
3. 3+ feet of sewing thread.

D. Signaling.

1. I have an English metal whistle that will blow your ear drums out. Used it on a hike with my nephew and his two friends 6-7 years old to call them back every time they tried to wander too far from the group. Also if I had to yell for help it would sure be louder and last longer than my voice.

2. I have some Al foil folded up. Maybe it would be more reflective than the palm of my hand or maybe not?

E. Food.

Ok this is silly but what the heck.

1. Fishing line and 2 flies and hooks.

2. Wire.

The green wooly bugger (never know exactly how to spell that...woolie, wooly or wooly) will catch nearly anything from pan fish to trout. I hard to replace one that was given away to a friend during a fishing trip. He was burning through my files like they were candy. Like I said an Altiods kit can be a working kit. Wire snare? Probably not. LOL!

F. Light.

I have a small PT amber LED keychain light.

G. Repair.

I have a sewing needle with thread. I must have replaced the thread multiple times sewing buttons back on. The fatter I get the more wardrobe malfunctions seem to befall me. :(

H. Water. About a year ago I had two water tabs but used them during a camping trip. Those need to be replaced. Also there is a plastic bag which might or might not hold water as it has been folded so tight for some time. That said I am about to say something which I hope is taken within the proper context. I don't know every water born illness however most in my neck of the woods and guessing other places as well takes 5-7 days before it hits. I had giardia and it is no joke but I wouldn't last 3 days without water. If I am not found by 7 days somehow I think the search would be for a body. Basically if there are no other options and by definition surviving with an Altoids kit (is there any documented cases) is a last ditch thing I would simply drink the water. Maybe I would attempt to boil it first in the tin etc etc but I am drinking no matter what if there is water.

I. First Aid.

BandAid and anti bacterial cream packet. I have replaced these several times.

I could go on but by now guessing it should be clear that an Altoids or other very small kit isn't perfect unless it is all yea have or if it is handy. The same basic answer applies to those "what is the perfect knife" threads. The knife or kit someone actually has on their person is perfect because that's what yea got.
 
i consider my tin as a last ditch item for no more than 1 or 2 nights stranded anything longer and you got problems , so any food catching items too me are not needed. i say water and fire and a wistle too signal and a few band aids are in order!
 
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