Am I Expecting Too Much?

Lenny

Lenny

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 15, 1998
Messages
2,268
So, I was playing around with my Plain Jane Large Sebenza 21 about a month ago. I would push down on the blade spine and feel movement/flexing in the lock bar. There was also the slightest bit of vertical blade play. So I contacted CRK and sent it in.

Here's their recent email to me:
- "The technician who serviced your knife said that everything is in spec and that your knives vertical play is in fact better than some of the newer knives. Tim Reeve also tested it and said it felt great. All knives have that slight vertical play."

My response:
- "but i’m not happy. not one of my other liner locks or frame locks has a hint of either vert or horizontal play. and they cost a fraction of a sebenza. i would have thought that an almost $500 knife would be perfect in all regards.
just send it back and send me tracking"

To which they replied:
- "I'm sorry you feel that way. You'll have the tracking info by the end of the day."

I just don't know what to make of this. CRK is saying that all their folders have vertical play!! WTF?!?! Pretty much every other knife company can make their folders with zero vertical blade play! I mean, I love my Sebenza, even with the tiny blade play; but the lock bar flex is concerning. Neither of these things compromise use of the knife one bit. But, I have liner lock knives with tiny 1 or 2mm thick steel liners that show no flex or vertical blade play. I have Spyderco Ti frame locks with thinner lock bars than the Sebenza that show no flex or blade play.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Thanks,
Lenny
 
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I guess I'm lucky. The dozens of CRK that have been through my hands over the years have not had any issues, other than one 21 I sent back to the dealer because of insane lock stick.

However, I wasn't trying to create any vertical play or flex until the internet recently told me it was a problem, but my current collection doesn't have any. I've never sent a knife back to CRK, but it seems like experiences vary greatly. Given their price and fabled warranty, I'm surprised to hear things like this.
 
Lenny said:
So, I was playing around with my Plain Jane Large Sebenza 21 about a month ago. I would push down on the blade spine and feel movement/flexing in the lock bar. There was also the slightest bit of vertical blade play. So I contacted CRK and sent it in.

Here's their recent email to me:
- "The technician who serviced your knife said that everything is in spec and that your knives vertical play is in fact better than some of the newer knives. Tim Reeve also tested it and said it felt great. All knives have that slight vertical play."

My response:
- "but i’m not happy. not one of my other liner locks or frame locks has a hint of either vert or horizontal play. and they cost a fraction of a sebenza. i would have thought that an almost $500 knife would be perfect in all regards.
just send it back and send me tracking"

To which they replied:
- "I'm sorry you feel that way. You'll have the tracking info by the end of the day."

I just don't know what to make of this. CRK is saying that all their folders have vertical play!! WTF?!?! Pretty much every other knife company can make their folders with zero vertical blade plan! I mean, I love my Sebenza, even with the tiny blade play; but the lock bar flex is concerning. Neither of these things compromise use of the knife one bit. But, I have liner lock knives with tiny 1 or 2mm thick steel liners that show no flex or vertical blade play. I have Spyderco Ti frame locks with thinner lock bars than the Sebenza that show no flex or blade play.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Thanks,
Lenny
Click to expand...
Is this vertical play when the knife is open and locked?
 
Ti framelocks can be made to flex. It is just a matter of how much flex and how easy it is to achieve. I personally have not noticed any blade movement on mine, but I don't try to find it either.
If you are getting movement during use, that is a problem. If it occurs just when you try to get it-not so much IMO
 
If I open and lock the knife, hang the blade over the edge of a table, edge down, hold the handle on the table with one hand and press on the spine of the knife with the other hand, I feel flex in the lock bar with my fingers.
 
This is a touchy subject for sure here.
Let me start by saying that I really enjoy my CR knives that are "Perfect" for lack of a better word. I have 8 currently, all my 21's are fine. I do have a large reg that had to be sent in twice because they didn't do as I asked. Even admitted to not doing what I asked. But finally got the knife back and it is "perfect" in my eyes. Now I have 3 31's two are rock solid, great detent, great lockup, centered. everything is just where I need it to be. One of them has blade play all over the place! vertical and horizontal. It seems as if the pivot pin is to tall and even a little to small as I can feel the blade move back and forth with the lockbar detent holding it open about halfway. This just kills me! I too have heard about them saying knives are in spec. I call bullshit! Seems as if things are a crap shoot anymore, used to be when you opened a new knife you could get straight to the admiring stage. Now the first few hours are spent trying to determine if things are good or if its gonna need a visit back to the mothership. All of this kills me, I love the knives and even willing to pay to have things tighter, but when your told your knife is fine and in spec it hurts. I agree there should be no blade play at all on a knife of this caliber. Having said all of this I still plan on buying more 31's. The issue with blade play on the 21 isn't the end of the world and can be corrected some, but my friend it still SUCKS!
 
Lenny said:
If I open and lock the knife, hang the blade over the edge of a table, edge down, hold the handle on the table with one hand and press on the spine of the knife with the other hand, I feel flex in the lock bar with my fingers.
Click to expand...

So no flex with what would be considered actual real world knife use scenarios. As mentioned above, frame locks can be made to flex withing certain tolerances. It doesn't mean the knife is flawed or any less usable that some other knife that doesn't have the same flex.

Carry and use it and or if you're not comfortable with it, sell it and use something else.
 
I have/had 21, inkosi and 31. All of them have no blade play as I can feel. I watched the YouTube on the lock rock of 31 and tested on my 31. Maybe I didn’t press the spine hard enough but I couldn’t feel any movement with the blade on the 31. If the issue can only be reproduced with strength higher than that, I don’t think it’s within the working spec if the knife.
 
Lenny said:
If I open and lock the knife, hang the blade over the edge of a table, edge down, hold the handle on the table with one hand and press on the spine of the knife with the other hand, I feel flex in the lock bar with my fingers.
Click to expand...
The real question at hand, IMO, is why would one do that. When I use my knives, the sharp side of the blade is typically in contact with what I want to cut. That puts pressure in the opposite direction of what you are doing; and it's a technique that has served me well for 45 years.
 
Lenny said:
If I open and lock the knife, hang the blade over the edge of a table, edge down, hold the handle on the table with one hand and press on the spine of the knife with the other hand, I feel flex in the lock bar with my fingers.
Click to expand...
Why, WHY! do this? :eek:
What's a point?
As Reeve said, everything is in spec.
 
Lenny said:
If I open and lock the knife, hang the blade over the edge of a table, edge down, hold the handle on the table with one hand and press on the spine of the knife with the other hand, I feel flex in the lock bar with my fingers.
Click to expand...

This is not an accurate test. Any and all framelocks will eventually fail if you push hard enough using this test.
If you open your knife and can make it flex with just your fingers...no table...then there is an issue.
 
Could the slight vertical play be a result of flexing the lock bar? Would testing the lock bar to see if it can flex over and over again deform the lock bar or lock face?
 
When the “lock rock” thread came about I did the tabletop test with several of my 21s. All of them flexed. I personally don’t find that test a good one.

I know lots of folks in this sub forum who actually use/work their CRKs. I work with all my CRKs, all except one 21. Stripped quite a bit of tough old thick wire today. I’m not saying that I use my knives more than everyone but they get used, a lot, and for everything. I’ve never had one fail, and not every circumstance I use them for is normal. I have never once noticed the flex while using my knife. Until that thread I never even thought about taking my knife and doing that tabletop test. I do check for side to side play. And even when one develops it I never notice it during use.

But all that aside if it does bother you I can understand. Everyone has different things that bother them. This particular thing doesn’t concern me at all. I use them with confidence
 
Lenny said:
Pretty much every other knife company can make their folders with zero vertical blade plan! I mean,
Click to expand...

That’s easy, continue to buy knives without vertical blade play and don’t continue to buy ones that have it regardless of the cost.
Personally, I use all my knives based on the intended design of the knife. The only knife I’ve ever used the spine side was my Umnumzaan to scrape some paint off a pipe. Even then I was paying attention to the pressure I was putting on the blade. IMO, it’s never a good idea to use a knife in a manner it’s not designed for. The only concern I’ve ever experienced was with a ZT452, I was applying lateral stress and saw the frame flex. Guess it was the carbon fiber that was giving. Other than that, I’ve not had any issues with any of my knives.
 
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Lockflex is going to happen...on all framelocks and linerlocks. Lockflex is actually not a bad thing.
If you can make the blade come off the stop pin with your fingers only and make an audible click, then there is an issue.
If you have a knife that seems to have no flex, when pushed hard enough, it will pop and close suddenly.
If you have some flex, then the blade has some “cushion” to it before it pops. :)

With all due respect, Lenny Lenny , to answer your post question, you are expecting too much. ;)
 
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