American Bladesmith Society

blgoode

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
7,096
What would be the standard steps in the ABS membership?

Do most start out as apprentices of some sort? Guess I'm not really sure what I am asking here.....

Or do most just make knives then join the ABS?

I do think I recall that ASB is a forge only group.
 
You can be a member of the ABS and not make any knives at all....just as a collector.

That said, membership is easy enough to get...just money. ;)

Getting your journeyman and mastersmith is a whole nuther story...



How do others feel about this? what about the Guild? I think Kit is in the guild - maybe he'll chime in.
 
I'm not much of a joiner, but I also won't publicly air any ill feelings for ABS or KG. Both are fine organizations, and when the shiz finally hits the fan (inevitably), we will need structured organizations to represent knifemakers and collectors in legislation. I will say one single caveat concerning any knife organization: Jumping through their hoops to achieve a title doesn't necessarily make a better knifemaker, but it does make you do your knives THEIR way. Something to consider.
 
I couldn't agree more, Jeff. I've struggled with this....but to be honest, I'm willing to put my personal desires aside for a lil' bit to "do it their way" just enough to get by. Then go back to my crazy stuff afterwards....:D
 
only gripe I have is to get any phone calls or emails out the the powers that be when we have any problems. :confused:
 
I enjoy belonging to the ABS. It is a challenge to pass the Journeyman and Master tests and personally rewarding. We are a forge only group and require forged and forge welded knives for the testing and judging but can also make air hardened steel blades for collectors and hunters if they prefer. There is allot of support among members and You can advance at Your own speed. My recommendation is to join soon and begin making test blades to pass the performance test and at the same time work on fit and finish for your customer knives. You need to be a member for 3 years before journeyman or 2 years if you go to the ABS school. I didnt go to the school but wish I had because the learning curve is much shorter plus you get to know the instructors and can ask a million questions.
 
I can see both sides of this issue. I'm a member of ABS, and will try working up through the "Smith" ranks when the time comes, a personal satisfaction and goal for me. I like their magazine, and have ordered some other books by Fisk and Moran from them. I love forging anyway, so I enjoy being a member and learning what I can from these guys.
Also enjoy talking to guys that aren't members, makes no difference to me. All are part of the family :)
 
Thats what I wanted to hear...both sides of the story.

I guess I just assume you will learn to make better knives.....but that will come in time....
 
Click on this and you'll have ALL of your questions answered THOROUGHLY :)

http://www.americanbladesmith.com

The ABS statement of commitment, sums it all up rather well:

"The American Bladesmith Society, Inc. pledges to diligently, reasonably, and responsibly work exclusively for the purposes of promoting and advancing the art and science of the forged blade and other implements. And also to inform and educate the public in respect to bladesmithing, metal forging and heat-treating processes, knife and tool design and fabrication, related arts and other areas in which the Society has expertise."


As far as my personal feelings, I have a strong commitment and belief in the ABS.

The ABS is a strong organization of good people that are constantly and persistently driving to further the previously mentioned statement of commitment WITH THEIR ACTIONS.

Some folks get upset and make loud statements about the ABS, but it's usually somebody who thinks that if they join an organization, said organization is supposed to do everything for them.

Working through the ranks from Apprentice, to Journeyman, to Master, is in a sense jumping through hoops. But it is a systematic process that will force you to really look at what you're making and what your knives can do. I'm not saying it will undoubtedly push you to make better knives. You may already make Master quality knives. But if that's the case, why not go through the process and have the credentials added to your knifemaking portfolio.


With all this said, it's not for everyone.

The best way to really find out if you'd like to be part of the ABS is to go to the all forged blade show...The American Bladesmith Expostion in Reno, Nevada next January. You'll get a really good look at the work the ABS guys do, and see what kind of folks represent the organization (not all of them, but a good lot :) ).

Okay, I'll step down now, I said my peace ;)

Thanks,
Nick


ps- And no, contrary to popular belief, not all the guys are from Arkansas :D I live in south-west Washington :)
 
I've been making knives for almost four years now. I joined the ABS last spring for three reasons.
1-(personal) I like testing myself and my knives as far as I can. The ABS tests, be they for a rating or just having fun at a hammer-in will push my work and skills harder and make me a better maker.
2-(finacial) I make my living by making knives. Having a JS or MS rating will only help my knife sales.
3-I support any organization that will help myself and my fellow makers. I have gotten so much help for makers in and out of various organizations it only seems reasonable to me that help back. If being an ABS member can put me in touch with more info to collect and also to pass around to others, why not.
ps-I've already started making test blades for JS Bruce. :D
 
I see that Nick was posting while I was compiling my response, so you'll see some repetition here. I started this reply in my text editor, then was called away for some "honey-do's".

##########

I'd like to help clear up some misunderstandings if I may.

The ABS and Stock Removal
The ABS does not dictate that it's members can't make knives by the stock removal method. This is a misunderstanding more than likely based on the rules for testing for a rating, and the cutting competitions.

First, look at the commitment of the ABS:
The American Bladesmith Society, Inc. pledges to diligently, reasonably and responsibly work exclusively for the purposes of promoting and advancing the art and science of the forged blade and other implements. And also to inform and educate the public in respect to bladesmithing, metal forging and heat treating processes, knife and tool design and fabrication, related arts and other areas in which the Society has expertise.

In view of the fact that the ABS exists for the aforementioned purpose, it is only logical that when a member chooses to test for a JS or MS rating, he/she must forge the blades. It is also logical that in the cutting competitions sanctioned by the ABS, the blades would be forged.

Think of it like this. If you are taking a test to be come a master mechanic for General Motors, you would not show up fully expecting to be working on a Ford or Toyota. After all, you are not generically testing for your skills in general automotive mechanics. You are testing specifically for your skills as a mechanic on GM products.

Now, in your everyday dealings, whether it is as a hobbyist, a part-timer, or a full-time maker, you use whatever method presses your buttons at the time. The only time I can think of that the ABS might spank your hand is if your were making blades by the stock removal method and intentionally passing them off as forged.

"They make you do it their way"
There is no "their" way. If you attend classes or the ABS Hammer-in's, there is a phrase that you will often hear -- "This is not the only way, or necessarily the best way. This is the way I do it, and it works well for me".

Through the years I have watched, worked with, sought advice by phone or email etc. from Jerry Fisk, Steve Dunn, Mike Williams, Bert Gaston, Jim Crowell, Bill Moran, John Fitch, Ray Kirk, Bailey Bradshaw, Jim Batson, Jim Luce, Jay Hendrickson, Don Fogg, Howard Clark, Larry Harley, James Cook, Harvey Dean, and list goes on and on.

We all have different techniques with respect to forging, heat treating, and possibly to a lesser degree, grinding and finishing. For example, have you ever watched Harvey Dean grind a blade? He grinds one side edge up and the other side edge down. It's a method that works for him.

It stands to reason that if you learn from one of these guys without any prior experience, you would be learning and doing things the way they do. However, as you mature in the art you begin to experiment and develop your own methods and procedures.


An ABS Style Knife
No such thing.

If we are talking about the vast number knives produced by ABS smiths that have an old style "traditional" look, it's not because the ABS teaches that this IS the style to produce. One reason is that many of us find the old traditional look to be beautiful. Another could be because the traditional styles sell by the tens of thousands. It stands to reason that if you can make a style that you personally like AND can be paid well for it, that is the style that you would lean towards.

But there is no ABS style knife. Look at the work of several ABS smiths. Here are some suggestions out of several hundred. Check out Bill Moran, Jerry Fisk, Darrel Ralph, Conny Persson, Larry Harley, Ed Fowler, and Daniel Winkler. How different can you get?

The only time you are told (or strongly advised) to stay within a certain set of parameters is when you are testing for your JS or MS rating.

#######

Nick said ...
Some folks get upset and make loud statements about the ABS, but it's usually somebody who thinks that if they join an organization, said organization is supposed to do everything for them.

Some may see it as a harsh and even offensive statement, but the mere act of being a member and paying dues is not going to do much for you other than give you a good feeling because you are supporting a fine organization. To get anything out of it, you must put something in. You must participate.

#######

As far as getting help from "the powers that be", that's a problem because there aren't any "powers that be" such as a big building with a CEO and employees that answer the phone and emails all day. The ABS is a big group of folks scattered around the world, that give what time they can to the effort.

When we have problems, we contact each other. When you become an "active" member you will form strong friendships with like-minded smiths. Problems that require immediate attention are resolved by calling someone in your little click of close friends, or if you are brand new, by contacting a smith who you know through forums like this one. Also, one of the things you get when you join up is an ABS directory will all our addresses, phone numbers, website URL's, and email addresses.

For questions about the school, you would contact Scotty Hayes at Texarkana College. The school is cooperative effort between The American Bladesmith Society, Inc., Texarkana College, and The Pioneer Washington Restoration Foundation in Old Washington, Arkansas. All this information is on the ABS website.
 
It seem logical to want to see the "whole" picture, and thats hard to see when your only doing things "your way".

I think I will join the ABS when I find someone near to bounce experiance and knowledge off of......

I was glad I asked this question...

oh, I like the fact that there is "history" in a spiritual since in making knives and if I were to give back to fellow ABS members down the road..I will be weaved in that "history" web......
 
primos said:
As far as getting help from "the powers that be", that's a problem because there aren't any "powers that be" such as a big building with a CEO and employees that answer the phone and emails all day. The ABS is a big group of folks scattered around the world, that give what time they can to the effort.
.
let's re-faze that, when you e-mail from the ABS site, I believe it goes to
some one person or it would not be listed or shouldn't be anyway. just my HO
but I realize not everyone uses e-mail like some others would.
but it wasn't the e-mail I was concerned with..
I made a phone call concerning my 2nd year dues, got an answering machine
then a week or two later got a return message on my answering machine.
I would have been happy to have the question I had, answered on my machine.
but I just got the number to call back again?? so that I did,, and got the same answering machine,
now to date no return at all from that one ?? it's been probably 2 months now..
I believe I called the one that takes the money.. Jan? I'd have to look and verify that now my ole memory
is failing me..

maybe you can help Terry
I asked, do you get a new card every year you pay your dues? I didn't get a new one this last time, I'd like to know if I'm still a member for the money paid this year?? I can't find an up to date paid members list on the site.. :confused:

Thanks...
 
Dan, I paypaled my dues in about 3 months ago, and never heard a thing. About 3 weeks ago Jan emailed me and asked if I still wanted to join, and that there had been some computer problems. I said yes, and got my stuff in the mail a few days later. Not sure why you're not able to get through via email though.
 
Dan,
That's a more than valid concern. Let me see if I can help get this taken care of. To answer your question about the card, yes, you are supposed to receive a new card each year.

#####

[ He comes back and say's ... ]
Dan,
I'm working on it. It was a little late at night to get started, but I'm going to try to at least get you some kind of answer or pointed to the right authority tonight.

#####

[ Back again ... ]
Dan,
You have mail.
 
primos said:
Dan,
That's a more than valid concern. Let me see if I can help get this taken care of. To answer your question about the card, yes, you are supposed to receive a new card each year.

#####

[ He comes back and say's ... ]
Dan,
I'm working on it. It was a little late at night to get started, but I'm going to try to at least get you some kind of answer or pointed to the right authority tonight.

#####

[ Back again ... ]
Dan,
You have mail.

Thanks Terry I got it and back at you with mail. Thanks

rhrocker yes Computers can and do cause probably for sure. Terry gave me some addys to use ,, I'm sure I'll/we'll get on track :)
 
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