An observation regarding aftermarket bearings

K.O.D.

K.O.D.

Sell your cloak buy a sword
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All the time I see people talking about how they've upgraded the bearings on their knives to skiff or whoever. I was intrigued by this as I see this often on rather expensive knives that shouldn't need an upgrade.

Most of my "action" issues were resolved by cleaning the black nasty in the pivot, and a good oil in the pivot and the detent ball.

However, there were two that did not help, and I noticed the telltale "dishing" of the pivot in my Spyderco's Domino and Southard. I thought what the hell and I bought Taco bearings for each. I installed them, and there was some improvement but nothing noticeable.

Fast forward a few months. Both knives needed to be loctited, which I just finished reinstalling the pivot screws on both. The Domino has become incredible action wise, on par with some of the WE's I've owned. Very surprising. If only I could get rid of the ugly CF scale. I call it "Bill Cosby sweater weave CF."

Sadly, the Southard is stuck in mediocre -ville. I'll keep trying to break it in. I'm ok with it, just hoping they will be more durable than stock.

This has led me to believe that it is the minority of knives that can be improved with aftermarket bearings. I think a retuned lockbar and a cleaning and lubing can do wonders for the action.


Am I in the minority thinking that generally the upgrade is not worth it in most cases? I don't think I could discern the difference in say my AD20.5.
 
Skiffs will not improve the action unless there is something really wrong with the original bearings. It's a common misconception. Adding more bearings just offers more contact points on the blade, making the connection between blade and handle sturdier, and allowing the bearings to last longer.
 
Synov said:
Skiffs will not improve the action unless there is something really wrong with the original bearings. It's a common misconception. Adding more bearings just offers more contact points on the blade, making the connection between blade and handle sturdier, and allowing the bearings to last longer.
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That would seem to make sense why bearings are upgraded because the action shouldn’t need any improvement. I always kind of felt if the action on a knife with bearings wasn’t great then it was an utter fail. While I certainly enjoy them, I’m not really impressed by the action as far as some kind of achievement or job well done. I mean its fricking bearings in a knife pivot, you should expect nothing less.

However when a knife has great action on washers, I am much more impressed by the craftmanship and achievement. A perfect example would be the action on a Les George and a knife most have experience with, the paramilitary 2 & 3. These knives fly open and pretty much drop shut all while on pb washers. I also feel they have hydraulic smoothness that just feels better than bearings imo.

Full disclosure: I prefer washers when well done if that wasn’t already obvious 😉
 
mitchnola said:
That would seem to make sense why bearings are upgraded because the action shouldn’t need any improvement. I always kind of felt if the action on a knife with bearings wasn’t great then it was an utter fail. While I certainly enjoy them, I’m not really impressed by the action as far as some kind of achievement or job well done. I mean its fricking bearings in a knife pivot, you should expect nothing less.

However when a knife has great action on washers, I am much more impressed by the craftmanship and achievement. A perfect example would be the action on a Les George and a knife most have experience with, the paramilitary 2 & 3. These knives fly open and pretty much drop shut all while on pb washers. I also feel they have hydraulic smoothness that just feels better than bearings imo.

Full disclosure: I prefer washers when well done if that wasn’t already obvious 😉
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I concur. I think a lot has to do with the detent ball and in the case of knives like the PM2, the lock can be held open for the entire movement of the blade, so there is zero pressure on the blade.

When executed well, both are great. However, I feel like bearings are the in thing, and I won't deny my Alan Davis has the best action of any knife I've ever owned, even the Tighe I once had.

As I have previously mentioned, I feel like detent ball pressure has a lot to do with it. I've tried tuning the lock and oiling the ball on my Southard with very little change, and that may just be a design issue, because with no lock pressure it will free fall.

I'm guilty of this, but I definitely see upgraded bearings as part of the tinkering addiction. I love to tinker with all sorts of things, but only if there is an appreciable improvement, whether functional or aesthetic, such as scales or a clip. The only reason I did it is because the dished bearing cages on my Domino were creating centering issues, which drove me nuts. I ordered some for the Southard just because. The Domino is centered perfectly and flips great. I'll probably carry it tomorrow but I desperately want a new scale for it.
 
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44 years of knife collecting and using.

Never ran into a problem.

Buying the right knives?

Using the knives correctly?

Cleaning my knives properly?

Luck?

Not being too picky?

I think you hit the nail on the head stating a well made knife should be in the minority...of QC issues.

If in doubt, use a fixed blade pocket edc.
 
I have never worried an out a knife’s action. I don’t want “fall shutty” and unless I have spent WAY TOO MUCH on a knife, so I don’t expect much. I have owned a few knives that supposedly had Skiff or other aftermarket bearings installed. I didn’t notice any illness cured or miraculous divine intervention but the knives functioned just fine. I can see if someone wanted to upgrade to a double row from single or from washers. But replace them just to say it has ninja bearings I think it’s silly.
 
Monofletch said:
I have never worried an out a knife’s action. I don’t want “fall shutty” and unless I have spent WAY TOO MUCH on a knife, so I don’t expect much. I have owned a few knives that supposedly had Skiff or other aftermarket bearings installed. I didn’t notice any illness cured or miraculous divine intervention but the knives functioned just fine. I can see if someone wanted to upgrade to a double row from single or from washers. But replace them just to say it has ninja bearings I think it’s silly.
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I too, prefer a knife to have a controlled and hydraulic action over drop shut. That said, if a knife already has that type of action from the start, then that's good. I don't go out of my way to achieve it. I like them to be able to flick open, but just slowly fall past the detent when closing where I can assist it manually all the way.
 
gooeytek said:
I too, prefer a knife to have a controlled and hydraulic action over drop shut. That said, if a knife already has that type of action from the start, then that's good. I don't go out of my way to achieve it. I like them to be able to flick open, but just slowly fall past the detent when closing where I can assist it manually all the way.
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Well said. But, we are the minority here I think.
 
My preference is for a controlled hydraulic action as well - think Chris Reeve. However there’s something satisfying about the thump of a knife with bearings - think Hinderer tri-way.
 
mitchnola said:
That would seem to make sense why bearings are upgraded because the action shouldn’t need any improvement. I always kind of felt if the action on a knife with bearings wasn’t great then it was an utter fail. While I certainly enjoy them, I’m not really impressed by the action as far as some kind of achievement or job well done. I mean its fricking bearings in a knife pivot, you should expect nothing less.

However when a knife has great action on washers, I am much more impressed by the craftmanship and achievement. A perfect example would be the action on a Les George and a knife most have experience with, the paramilitary 2 & 3. These knives fly open and pretty much drop shut all while on pb washers. I also feel they have hydraulic smoothness that just feels better than bearings imo.

Full disclosure: I prefer washers when well done if that wasn’t already obvious 😉
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The Spartan Harsey SHFs also fall into this category! Incredible knives, running on washers.
 
I see zero need to "upgrade" the bearings in my knives. I've held a few knives that were "upgraded" to Skiffs and felt absolutely nothing out of the ordinary as compared to the original washers, so that wasted money as far as I could tell. Almost as though yet another EDC company is making money through successful marketing.
 
The only knives I have messed with were a couple of "Herman" knives from Poland. I took the first on apart to fix a pathetic opening action and discovered that their bearings were not only not caged, but incredibly small. I believe I lost about 30% of these speck (seriously, my eyes were not even able to see them at first!) sized black balls. no response from the maker so I picked up some skiffs to replace factory bearing on all three of my Herman knives, Work great, slightly different size than original, but works at least as well.
 
oldrifleman said:
The only knives I have messed with were a couple of "Herman" knives from Poland. I took the first on apart to fix a pathetic opening action and discovered that their bearings were not only not caged, but incredibly small. I believe I lost about 30% of these speck (seriously, my eyes were not even able to see them at first!) sized black balls. no response from the maker so I picked up some skiffs to replace factory bearing on all three of my Herman knives, Work great, slightly different size than original, but works at least as well.
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ah yes, IKBS. What a PITA 😆
 
Quiet said:
The Spartan Harsey SHFs also fall into this category! Incredible knives, running on washers.
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Interesting, I’ve had my eye on the spartan, think they’re really good looking knives, just have so many others in that price range that I want as well. May need to reconsider. I’ll have to thoroughly check them out at the next bladeshow. I swore off anymore large purchases until then.

I do want to mention when it comes to knives on washers that Emerson has greatly improved their action on their knives. I’m a big fan of his and most of my knives are pre 2018. They all have to be slow rolled or flicked with the wrist. I don’t know when the improvements were made but I’ve handled a few new ones recently that can be easily flicked with the thumb and they fly open. They’re pretty impressive now considering what they were. He still has the qc issues that so many complain about but that’s never bothered me and will probably never change. His knives are meant to be hard users not fine pieces of craftsmanship, so I get it. Also, his flippers are smooth as hell and drop shut, some of my favorite knives on bearings.
 
mitchnola said:
Interesting, I’ve had my eye on the spartan, think they’re really good looking knives, just have so many others in that price range that I want as well. May need to reconsider. I’ll have to thoroughly check them out at the next bladeshow. I swore off anymore large purchases until then.

I do want to mention when it comes to knives on washers that Emerson has greatly improved their action on their knives. I’m a big fan of his and most of my knives are pre 2018. They all have to be slow rolled or flicked with the wrist. I don’t know when the improvements were made but I’ve handled a few new ones recently that can be easily flicked with the thumb and they fly open. They’re pretty impressive now considering what they were. He still has the qc issues that so many complain about but that’s never bothered me and will probably never change. His knives are meant to be hard users not fine pieces of craftsmanship, so I get it. Also, his flippers are smooth as hell and drop shut, some of my favorite knives on bearings.
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Well, I will say this: they DO require a break-in period. However, after a few hundred open/close actuations, they smooth out to drop shuttiness, and smooth flickable opening. It also allows for a smooth hydraulic CRK-like opening as well thanks to the larger than average thumbstuds. I enjoy my SHFs quite a lot. I think you would as well..
 
Oh boy, lots to say. Switched over to my computer as a phone takes too long.

I too am not a fan of IKBS and therefore do not own a knife with that feature.

I enjoy taking apart things, knives, guns, computers, video game consoles, etc. Whether to clean or to fix. Bearings falling out would suck.

I only replaced the bearings in my Domino because I couldn't get it to center, no matter what I did. In disassembling it, I noticed how dished and warped the washers and bearing cages were. So since I was ordering replacements from Taco, I figured I should try it on my Southard too. Granted, I bought the Domino used, so it was probably time anyway.

I've customized quite a few of my knives, and taken apart nearly all of them. My Alan Davis is an exception, as it is perfection and I don't want to mess with a good thing. My Biryukov is as well, but because of the proprietary hardware (which irks me).

Due to losing about 30% of my visual field as an 11 year old, my other senses are heightened. If I cannot find a perceptible difference in switching bearings, I doubt most people can.

Flippers can be good on washers too--case in point is my Bailey Model 2. Has that feel that other knives on washers has, but flips well. It could use a slightly stronger detent, and a much shorter flipper tab, but it works fine on washers.

I will say, I abhor the feeling of poorly executed bearings, or at least the feel when the manufacturer chooses to use that viscous black lube (I call it the black nasty) that attracts dust and gives the bearings a gritty feeling. I've yet to experience that crap on a knife with washers, though its been a hot minute since I purchased a knife with washers.

In the end, I think a good cleaning an good (and appropriate for the application) lube of both the pivot and detent ball can do wonders for a knife's action, far more than upgraded bearings (or washers for that matter).
 
Bearings in folding knives are designed to reduce friction between the blade and the handle scales or liners, allowing for smoother opening and closing action. Stock bearings in quality knives are typically well-engineered to provide good performance. However, aftermarket bearings, like Skiff or TBS bearings, are often marketed as upgrades that can enhance smoothness and reduce wears.
 
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I never had caught onto the " Make " my Expensive knife better with aftermarket components because it needed it ~ IMHO It's more hype than anything else ~

Sure change the Scale color or add some wizza new color screws but why mess with the mechanics of the knife ? Did you not buy the knife because you liked the Design ~ ? Are the cool purple color super anodized ball bearings with Polybendem really any better ? After all don't nearly all folders have some adjustment to find the sweet Spot ~~
 
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