Ancient Edge Hissatsu

H

Hellenae

Joined
Jul 15, 1999
Messages
2
The Hissatsu is designed as a back up for a long gun "no-fire" during a room entry. It is designed for Military Special Operations and Law Enforcement Special Operations. It is designed to be used in a certain and specific manner. I don't want to bore anyone with the details. Any Military or Law Enforcement person who would like more info may contact me at Ancient Edge.

The Hissatsu retails for $249. There is a deep discount for active duty military unit purchase. There is an atractive discount for military and law enforcement individual purchase. If you see a Hissatsu being sold for more than $300, you are probably seeing a Hissatsu that was ground by Bob Egnath, there are about 100 of these.

The design of the Hissatsu blade is perfect. Its penetration and slash index is off the charts. The design of the handle has no compromise. There is a definite reason for excluding a guard. The scabbards' "quick draw" design is "use specific". The scabbard is not a conventional carry system.

The blade material is ATS-34. The handle and scabbard material is ballistic ABS. We tested every steel, and every plastic/polyurethane/synthetic material available, there was no benefit to using anything other than what we did. We continue to test steel/metals for our blades and also synthetics for our scabbards and handles.

As for our "Operators" (read: "experts"). They are the best in the world.




 
Two questions about the Hissatsu:
ATS-34 and polymer grip...why is this worth $249?
Is there any type of identification on the blades ground by Bob?
Aaron

------------------
amacks@nist.gov
Don't forget to pay your taxes...they eventually become my knives:)

 
First of all let me apologize if this post ends up somewhere else on the planet other than the Bladeforum. We are changing ISP's and POP's. And I have not idea where some of my online communications go. What the Hissatsu is worth is relative. It costs $249 because that's what it costs to get it to market. Not to be patronizing but, the "Unit purchase price" is different because there is less cost to get it to market. There are less than 1200 Hissatsu in the field as of July '99. Recapturing R&D and initial manufacturing costs will not be realized until 2002. As long as the blades are done by hand (except the mold work) it'll cost what it costs. As for which Hissatsu's were done by Bob Egnath. There were 4 groups. Non-removeable handles (no bolts) was group #1. Rounded false edge(back) was group #2. The name Ancient Edge is on the ricosa and it is not covered by black silicon which is group #3. And last, there is not Ancient Edge kanji or name on the blade anywhere. Nick.
 
Ah, a handground blade, that explains the price, at least somewhat. From the previous descriptions, I expected the entire thing to be made by machine.
Aaron

------------------
amacks@nist.gov
Don't forget to pay your taxes...they eventually become my knives:)

 
Uh, just one question......

"The Hissatsu is designed as a back up for a long gun "no-fire" during a room entry."

This is why transition to a pistol is taught during instinctive firing training. No offense, but pulling a knife while standing/kneeling in the "Fatal Funnel" isn't exactly what I would call a smooth transition.

Just my observation. Nice knife, I must add. I have seen the advertisements, but hadn't heard anything else up until now. Curiousity killed the cat.....



[This message has been edited by tobii3 (edited 29 July 1999).]
 
Okay,I`ve seen pics of this knife and frankly I just don`t see what`s so hot about it. NO knife has a *perfect* blade since there is no such thing. If there was it certainly wouldn`t be made from ATS-34. There`s nothing radical apparent about the blade profile or grind that would make it some super duper knife. I don`t get it. So please tell me what makes this knife made from ATS34 and ABS plastic (!) so great? Please refrain from using nonsensical phrases such as slicing index etc. and tell me why someone would lay out that kind of cash for a semi semi custom classic tanto copy instead of buying say a Livesay or Blackcloud for the same or less money. Also enlighten us as to why having no guard or finger indexing groove(s) is an advantage in a fighting knife,it seems every other combat knife maker has missed out on this juicy little nugget. Maybe this is the knife of the century and I`m a bozo. Maybe not,but in any case this should be fun.
wink.gif
Marcus
 
this thread has been a big departure from the reviews i've seen in the past for the Hissatsu. the knife was discussed, i believe in knifeforums.com, after one of the big knife shows and garnered universal disdain as a total POS, a gimmick knife with a rattly sheath if i recall correctly. i guess it just goes to show 'ya. i'll have to check one out next time i get the chance and formulate my own opinions. although i'd never buy the ugly thing.
 
Having only seen one at a local knife shop, where the dealer ordered one as a sample, there might possibly be a difference between models. I don't claim to be a knife fighting expert, but have had a few things pointed out to me in the past by folks who have been there.

Anyway, the blade I saw was okay if it was priced around 80 bucks, but as far as a no holds barred knife designed for dispatching, in my opinion, it blows. First off the handle is some funky plastic material that wasn't comfortable or particually grippy. It appeared that it would slicken a lot if exposed to fluids, whatver they may be. For less than 249, RJ Martin's Kozuka's have a real rayskin wrapped handle, not to mention are full customs made of A2 and the one of the best silent quick draw sheaths I have ever seen.

The upsweapt nature of the blade renders it worthless when stabbing anywhere in the thoracic region as the tip is much higher than the belly making it easy to lodge inbetween ribs, and would only be suitable for a rear approach kidney entry.

The sheath is dinky hands down. The blade rattled around inside, and the attachment mechanism didn't seem sturdy at all.

To be honest the price shocks me. Seems like a case of high equals quality/desirability. Not in my opinion. Just my two bits.
 
Hellenae, I do not really understand your review of the Hissatsu. Is your posting a review of this knife? It lacks a certain... quality of information I have come to expect from knife reviews on Blade Forums. "penetration and slash index is off the charts" what charts? On what materials? Who tested the blade? How does the point stand up to hard impacts such as loaded steel ammo clips or shock plates? How does the edge hold up compared to the competitions? What knives did you test your Hissatsu against? What is the Rc of the blade (not on your website when I looked at the specs). Why was ABS plastic used when the industry standard is either glass reinforced zytel, G-10, linen micarta, etc... Why an ABS sheath? Why not Kydex? Since you actually tested every steel, and every plastic/polyurethane/synthetic material then where are the numbers showing the performance comparisons between materials which justify your use of ATS-34/ABS as being the best choice. You did say "no benefit to using other than what we did". If the design of the handle has "no compromise", what is it about the handle that makes it so? What variables did you use to test the handle material? What chemical/enviromental hazards did you subject the handle to that allows you to make the claim "no compromise". If you are going to post a review about the Hissatsu to generate interest and sales of this "perfect blade", I suggest a more detailed review using any one of our quite capable forum members that do independent-unbiased reviews. I am sure any one of the senior members would be happy to direct you to someone to give one of your knives to for a thorough evaluation. It is unbiased, accurate and detailed information that I look for when reading reviews about knives. I look forward to reading an actual "review" about this "perfect" knife.
 
If Ancient Edge is interested, I will beat on it and give them my full opinion, not necessarily on high tech targets, but on logs, 2x4, various cutting media, etc.

Hellenae, I agree with my fellow members. If you are gonna review, talk about your test methods, media and how you attempted to break it and failed (or succeeded). Maybe have someone not asociated with the company do it for you. I was curious enough after seeing the ad in KI tha I actually bought the issue for the ad, called for the info on the blade and have yet to recieve it. I was thrown not by the price, b/c I feel that quality and design can cost that much, but I was disturbed by the $100 difference in price between civilian and military/ police price. Are they more likely to spend money on an untested product, or is it likely to be the civilian martial practitioner with a love of knives? Oh, by the way, I can think of several designs designed for killing that are just as eficient as yours if not more, so please spare us the hype about "best scientifically derived configuration" or any such nonsense. A good Bowie, for example, wil cleave your knife in half, your wrist with it and slice through most of the neck along the way. I do not knoew how much more efficient I need to be than that, and the same knife will do so while allowing me five inches more distance than a six inch blade...

I am not impressed that your company has not only failed to send me product literature, but also failed to respond to the e-mail I left at your web site. I am intrigued by the design and was perhaps wiling to buy it unseen, but as a businessman and a practitior of serious martial pursuits involving the blade, I find it odd that I have not heard from you as of yet.

Anyway, I guess it really does not matter. You seem to have missed the point of this particular forum, that being the posting of results and how the results came to be. many reviews here are highly favorable, some are not. The common link between them is discusion of how the results came to be, not a sales pitch for the product one makes. If you are serious about trying to sell a few of these knives here, let us try hear about the abuse you put one through and how it did, preferably not performed by the rep of your company. Sorry if the tone here offends you, but do listen to the message.
 
I'm with you Parker. I emailed the company when I first saw the ads requesting more information than was offered in the very ambiguous ad. After a month and two very confused emails later from varied people connected to Bugei Trading Co. and Ancient Edge, I still received no noteworthy information. Certainly not even remotely the answers to my specific questions. The way I feel about it, I don't care if it's the greatest knife ever developed; any company that can't conduct business better than that is not a company at all and loses my interest. Luckily I've got some original Bob Egnath blades that I hand finished myself; the fact stands that he was a great blademaker.

------------------
Professor

Ever notice no other candy tastes quite like Pez? Oh yeah, and the BM Axis rules.


 
So it's been almost a week since I left my invitation to try the Hissatsu out and how long (used to be able to scroll down and check dates/ names etc.) since this thread got started...

I am still willing to give this thing my shot, and will take to others far more qualified than I to let me know their impressions, but here is one of mine formed fairly solidly now:

Ancient edge got a membership here for the sole function of selling their knife which, they claim, with nothing more than their hardly dis-interested say-so, is far superior for close combat to anything else out there in the knife world. Balls.

Any knife which can only be used "one way" is a guaranteed loser, maybe my hands are too busy to find that grip. I am willing to give it a shot on their dime, or even a significant discount, but I doubt that will happen. I do find it disgraceful that they have not come back to respond. They can even e-mail any of us a response should the AE folks want to keep it private.

I do not expect a response here, maybe they are having better luck at knife-forums.

Parker
 
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