Ancient Greek Kopis

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Kevan Taylor-Perry

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Sep 3, 2000
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For those interested, I have a couple of specs. on the kopis from a couple people. The question was "What are the dimensions of the ancient Greek kopis of rea 500-100BC?" these are the answers I got: One said the blade was 21" long and 2 1/2" wide at widest point tapering to 1" at the handle. Sharpened on the concave edge. Blade thickness was 3/16th's to 1/4". Handle was 3 1/2" long not including back hook. Another said blade was 28" long. Handle was 4" and blade was concave(?) with beveled back edge a coupleinches from the point. Blade width was 1 3/4" to 2" slightly tapering to the point. Blade thickness a little over 1/4" thick. Thick at the back rib and tapering to the edge. Slight fullers may have run much of the length. So this is what I've got for all those interested. In my own reading, I place the blade at about 21" to 24". Also, there is a distinction between the kopis, falcata, and macheira, though they all appear to be the same basic form of design. No one quite agrees on much beyond that the Greeks used the kopis, the Thracians used the macheira, and the CeltIberians (and Samnites) the falcata. But, anyway, here's what I came up with and I'd have to agree that the UBE comes VERY close to a kopis.

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Kevan "Raven" Taylor-Perry
 
Kevan wrote -

"Also, there is a distinction between the kopis, falcata, and macheira, though they all appear to be the same basic form of design. No one quite agrees on much beyond that the Greeks used the kopis, the Thracians used the macheira, and the CeltIberians (and Samnites) the falcata."

Sorry, but that ain't so.

The words kopis and machaira were used pretty well interchangeably in classical Greece, machaira being the more commonly used word. Nobody used the word falcata; it's a modern coinage. IIRC, the principal description of the 'falcata' comes from the Greek historian Polybius, writing about the swords used by Spanish mercenaries fighting for Hannibal; (also IIRC) Polybius uses the word 'machaira'; what the Spanish called the thing isn't recorded.

Thracians are shown using machairas on a number of Athenian vase paintings, and there's some evidence to suggest that it was a favored weapon in Northern Greece as well as the South. (It's also depicted as being a favorite sword of Persians and Scythian [South Russian] nomads, though archaeological and other evidence for this is sparse]

The machaira was never the most popular sword in the Greek world; most Greek soldiers used the xiphos, a shortish leaf-bladed weapon. Greek poets and playwrights confused the issue by using machaira, kopis, xiphos, phasganon and other synonyms interchangeably, so that the only firm inference to be drawn is that none of these words are precise technical terms. I tend to follow Snodgrass, the author of the standard work on greek arms & armor, and call the concave-edged khukuri-like cutting sword a machaira (though I prefer the old-fashioned transliteration, machaera, 'cos I think it looks cuter...)


How come I'm so sure about this? After I finished my Classics degree at Oxford, I did 3 years postgraduate work on Greece in the 6th, 5th and 4th centuries, including a detailed study of military technology. I also researched this subject, with special reference to the machaira/kopis, for my book on Alexander the Great, which came out last year; also for another book, due out next year.

Sorry to be pedantic, but misconceptions annoy me.
 
Thanks for the info, Tom,though I would have said it differently. Misconceptions may annoy you, but bear in mind, not everyone has had the educational opportunities that you have had. We're all here to learn something, and if your purpose is to teach, sometimes a gentle tone is more well-received.

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Kevan "Raven" Taylor-Perry
 
Kevan, I'm sorry if my reply came across as flaky; as I mentioned to another forumite in e-mail, I nearly cancelled the post shortly after sending it, for that reason. I certainly didn't mean any offence to you or anybody else on the forum, and if I caused any, I apologise.
 
I love the style, and I'd always associated it with the Iberian peninsula, so purely in the interest of self education, I'd be interested in finding out where the term 'falcata' came from. If it's a modern coinage has anyone traced it to its first appearance? In short, who invented the name and why?

Peace,
Snuffy
 
Tom, I don't think your post was flakey or anything. I found it interesting myself. It's sometimes easy for different people to "hear" the same post very differently when there's no audible tone or visual feedback. I guess Kevan picked up on different bits than I did. Apologies are always in order when there is any doubt, but don't be afraid that everyone thought you were being snippy.

I know that you're modest about it and all, but how about some information on those books of yours? What's the title, publisher, etc? I'd be interested in reading it.

Paul

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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
A tool is, basically, an object that enables you to take advantage of the laws of physics and mechanics in such a way that you can seriously injure yourself.
 
Paul; if you're interested, there's a fairly full listing at amazon.co.uk. And thanks for asking!
 
Tom: No, the apology is mine; I was hasty and a bit defensive. I'm sorry to have went off half-cocked. And thanks, Bill and everyone else who's posted to help me see it straightly. That behind us, I'd like to know more about your book on Alexander, Tom.

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Kevan "Raven" Taylor-Perry
 
Hey, Tom, I looked up your books. I'm going to have to buy some of them.
smile.gif


Amazon.com has better reviews and prices, but lousy availability. My favorite real bookstore www.powells.com actually has quite a few of them in stock. Alexander at the World's End looks to be the one you've referred to here, but with titles like Faust Among Equals, Odds & Gods, Paint Your Dragon, and Snow White and the Seven Samurai (among others) some of the others have to be worth a read too.
biggrin.gif


Paul


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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
A tool is, basically, an object that enables you to take advantage of the laws of physics and mechanics in such a way that you can seriously injure yourself.
 
prn wrote -

"Amazon.com has better reviews and prices, but lousy availability. My favorite real bookstore www.powells.com actually has quite a few of them in stock"

Thanks for telling me that; it's interesting.

My first five books were published in the USA (16 years ago, give or take a year); since then, I haven't been able to find a US publisher (I think the crates of unsold copies clogging up the warehouse might have prejudiced them against me...)

My current publisher is the UK subsidiary of a US firm, and I've been trying to persuade the UK outfit to talk the US parent company into distributing the UK editions in the States. This job will be made easier if I can cite instances of US bookstores, real or online, selling my stuff in the US - any copies that show up in the US at the moment will have been ordered from the UK company's Canadian subsidiary...

And what has this got to do with khukuris? Well, it might mean I'll be able to afford that 22" Gelbu Special I've been dreaming about...
 
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