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Andre De Villiers Butcher – BAD BUSINESS, SHADY PRACTICES – ADV Butcher Knife

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Tenacious D

Tenacious D

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***UPDATE*** Visit the last post in this thread for a bunch of links to lots of other people who have had problems with Andre de Villiers and his knives.

Andre has hosed over so many people now, that he has earned a spot in Bladeforums Official Hall of Shame


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I hate to do this, but since this maker acted with such poor character in my dealing with him, I am sharing my experience.

· Ordered a Midtech Butcher from Andre
· Sent Paypal Payment the same day I contacted him and detailing the options I wanted for scales & blade in the Paypal payment notes
· Immediately after sending payment I also send him a facebook message telling him I just sent payment and, again, detailing the exact options I wanted and included a photo from his facebook page of the exact knife.
· Andre replied via Facebook confirming the order and receipt of payment
· When it came time to deliver, Andre told me that I would have to pay an additional $50. When asked why, he said the blade finish I wanted required that.
· Since he made no mention of it before, I asked him to review our Facebook msg exchange and review the fact that he confirmed my order and options.
· He responded by saying that if I was not ok with that, that he would just refund my money.
· I agreed to the refund and asked when he would refund my money. He replied “right now”
· He does not follow through on refunding my money and I try contacting him through Facebook and Instagram asking about my refund. He ignores those messages and never replies.
· With no other option, I post to his Facebook page inquiring about my refund.
· He responds on his Facebook page that he will refund my money.
· He shorts me on my refund
· I contact him pointing out that he shorted me and asked for the balance of my money that I paid him and please straighten it out through Paypal
· I start a Paypal claim for the balance of my refund
· I contact him again via Facebook and he agrees to “Staighten out the $$” if I post to his Facebook page that everything was settled.
· In good faith, I post to his Facebook page and indicate that everything was cool.
· He never follows through and ultimately I have to rely on Paypal to give me my money back.

In short, Andre conducts business in a highly questionable manner. First, he could have just honored my original order that he confirmed. Second, if his integrity wasn’t important enough to honor his commitment, then he should have refunded my money. Instead he never refunded me, ignored my private messages and forced me to go public and post to his Facebook page to get a response. And after all of that, he shorts my refund forcing me to get it from Paypal.
 
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I really don't understand this "I can't be bothered, so stop pestering me!" approach that some knife-makers seem to have. Like, it's clear that that guy dragged that process out as far as he could in order to inconvenience you in retaliation for what he saw as you bothering him.
 
There is more to a great knife than the actual knife itself.

I personally find that my favorite knives come from makers who have passion for what they do, but also the character and values for how to deal with the people that keep them in business, us.

Sorry you had to have this kind of experience, it should never happen.

With as many excellent makers as there are out there, Andre should be happy you wanted to spend your hard earned money on his work.

Thanks for sharing, this part of the hobby is important for me as I make decisions on what to buy next.
 
Totally true. That was what was most infuriating, was that fact that he was doing it on purpose just to inconvenience me. I think he was surprised that I actually opted to take his offer of refunding my money since his mid techs are in demand. I think he thought he could get an extra $50 from me. In June, his mid techs were going for $400 from retailers. I paid him $450 in July for my order and when it came time to deliver in August, he wanted me to pay another $50 for my order which was already paid and confirmed. Totally shady.

Quiet said:
I really don't understand this "I can't be bothered, so stop pestering me!" approach that some knife-makers seem to have. Like, it's clear that that guy dragged that process out as far as he could in order to inconvenience you in retaliation for what he saw as you bothering him.
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My sentiments exactly! It's not just the knife, it's the maker. With something as personal to me as a knife, it has to come from someone who has integrity.

JR88FAN said:
There is more to a great knife than the actual knife itself.

I personally find that my favorite knives come from makers who have passion for what they do, but also the character and values for how to deal with the people that keep them in business, us.

Sorry you had to have this kind of experience, it should never happen.

With as many excellent makers as there are out there, Andre should be happy you wanted to spend your hard earned money on his work.

Thanks for sharing, this part of the hobby is important for me as I make decisions on what to buy next.
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Andre makes nice stuff but not that nice that he can play the omnipotent creator.

Bad business makes for a bad knife maker in the end.

Communications and honesty are the key to selling knives no matter how good you are..................

Of course Andre won't show up here and offer an explanation, he's too "good" for that.
 
Sorry you had a bad experience. It is sad when maker ego gets to big for their britches. I remember a time many years ago when I ordered a knife from Walter Brend. He quoted me a price (and in writing) of $950. He also told me that it would be two years and I could pick it up at Blade. Well, that was ok with me. Fast forward two years and right b4 Blade his wife calls me and says it will be ready for me to pickup but, the price was now $1400. I said what? That was not what we agreed to. She said that is what it now was and that I needed to pay it. I said I would be there, but that I expected to pay what we agreed to. Anyway, I get to Blade, go to his table and I get the same $1400 claim. I again refer to his word. Now, the knife is not made yet and he needs $1400 due to increased material and shop cost. This was not good so I told him that. His wife then interjects and says "you do not have to give him any explanation". It went down hill from there when I asked him if it was ok for him to talk. End result, he was not honorable and I told him to keep his knife. He maybe a great grinder, but not a great man so I could care less. I suppose you feel the same way. Who needs a knife from a jerk.
 
As Allen Carr once stated regarding the time he met Paul Newman, "You should never meet your heroes." In this case it's "Knifemakers". I have read about 2 dozen threads about this very topic in the last 16+ months, give or take. A person makes an effort to acquire a piece from a maker, be it a custom or "mid-tech" and it ends in disaster for the customer. It truly sucks when a maker turns all "Diva" on their customers, as if being a complete jerk is a qualifier for "I made it big, look at me!".
 
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Wolfmann601 & RevDevil - totally agree. Just because you design one knife that's a big hit doesn't mean you can act like a douche. I mean, I can understand if you raise your prices due to demand, but I'm not sure how you can sell your integrity out for nickel and dime shit. And then take it to a whole 'nother level by jerkin the customer around by not refunding their money. I had to do a bunch of legwork just to get the money owed to me. If I was charging for MY time, he'd owe me double.

GastonKnife - That sucks man! A man's true character becomes pretty clear when you find out his own integrity can be sold out for some extra cash.
 
I have read some makers saying they don't want to have a long waiting list because by the time they have been making their big design for years, they want more for it, but they contracted at the older price.

The only way for them to get out of that honorably is to make those knives and from then on, keep a short list or just make what they like and put it up for sale.
 
Sorry this happened. I've had more than one dealer say that he is a diva and won't deal with him. The two other Andre's make better knives, IMHO.

The Butcher also looks an awful lot like FFKW's Radeon, Hmmm.
 
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sugarleaf said:
Wolfmann601 & RevDevil - totally agree. Just because you design one knife that's a big hit doesn't mean you can act like a douche. I mean, I can understand if you raise your prices due to demand, but I'm not sure how you can sell your integrity out for nickel and dime shit. And then take it to a whole 'nother level by jerkin the customer around by not refunding their money. I had to do a bunch of legwork just to get the money owed to me. If I was charging for MY time, he'd owe me double.

GastonKnife - That sucks man! A man's true character becomes pretty clear when you find out his own integrity can be sold out for some extra cash.
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Yes, It was rather dissapointing on many levels.
The only good thing is I got to look Brend in the eye in person and express my concern over his lack of integrity. It made me feel better anyway. I kind of have to laugh when you look at Brend's website and it has comments etc. about his love of church and God. Talking and walking are two different things. Maybe some day you will get the same chance with Andre. But, no big deal either way - thanks for letting us know. Would be interesting if he would come here to explain himself, but do not hold your breath.
 
I dont buy knives OF any sort if I have heard of BAD or LACKING business practices. THAT speaks in volumes to me of the MAKERS care and or lack there of for the people that keep THEM IN BUSINESS...
 
Sorry this happened OP, he should have returned your money right away if you're canceling. If a maker agrees to a set price for a set job, they should honor it even if it does end up costing them more. If it's just a random quote like "It should cost around $400" then maybe there's some wiggle room. Doesn't seem to be the case here though!

RecalcitrantAmerican said:
Sorry this happened. I've had more than one dealer say that he is a diva and won't deal with him. The two other Andre's make better knives, IMHO.

The Butcher also looks an awful lot like FFKW's Radeon, Hmmm.
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If you want something that's similar to a Butcher but on a different level, check out Randy Doucette's JEKEL... those are very nice pieces...
 
I hate when things like this happen. Particularly when it's someone who makes a knife that I really like. Time to scratch the Butcher off my wishlist.
 
I just had a very similar up charge that was sudden and very unexpected. It'll update everyone with how the refund process goes.
 
Sadly, there is no shortage of knifemakers who are extremely talented but have reputations as jerks. I have no experience with ADV, but all of us have said, or heard said, "I will never buy another knife from So-and-So" for personal, not product quality issues.

When I first started collecting, I got into Pat Crawford knives. I would call or email him often to ask about knives I saw on eBay or the forums. When I finally met him at a show, I told him how much I appreciated him taking so much of his time helping me learn about his stuff. In his rich Arkansas drawl, he replied,

"Well, I figure if people like you, they'll buy your knives."

That kind of sums it up. We want to deal with people we feel comfortable with. Last knives I bought from Pat I called him up and he sent them out the next day before I even paid him, just including an invoice in the package. Yeah, I am likely to "buy his knives."
 
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