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Annealing Part 2 - Temper Annealing, Cycling, and Final Properties

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by Larrin, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    The second and hopefully final article on annealing where I discussed two more major types of annealing, how annealing affects final properties, a few studies we performed comparing different annealing types, and recommendations on annealing for different steel types. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/06/17/annealing-part-2/
     
    Mo2, hugofeynman and rodriguez7 like this.
  2. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    I have been so busy the past few days, I haven’t had a chance to read this one yet. We are back to having two vehicles again, so I will have a bit more time in the next few days.
     
    hugofeynman and Larrin like this.
  3. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    I’m going to have to read this one again. There is a lot to unpack here. Not a simple article, but a lot of information to really dial in your pre HT structures,
     
    Justin Schmidt, Larrin and DevinT like this.
  4. Justin Schmidt

    Justin Schmidt Schmidt Forge Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 18, 2016
    Ok so to make sure I understand this right @Larrin
    For something like w2 I would : (I have a forge controlled by PID)
    Normalize at 1650 hold for 10 min, cool to black
    Preform DET anneal by heating to 1400 or 1460 (not sure) furnace cool
    Heat to 1475 hold 10 minutes quench in p50

    For 52100
    1650 normalize cool to black
    DET anneal 1460, furnace cool
    Heat to 1525 hold 15 minutes quench in p50?
     
  5. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    It looks like I recommended 1385°F for "simple carbon steels" which W2 would qualify despite the small vanadium addition.

    The "furnace cool" is specified as 670°F/h, though other cooling rates likely work.

    Specific 52100 heat treatments are recommended in the article on that steel: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/13/how-to-heat-treat-52100/
     
  6. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    For W2, which has a very narrow window to optimize, i’d Do a series of coupons from about 1440f to 1480f, in 10f increments. The one that gets the highest hardness is the one i’d use. For the old stock, optimum was 1460f in my shop.
     
    Justin Schmidt likes this.
  7. Justin Schmidt

    Justin Schmidt Schmidt Forge Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 18, 2016
    Ok so I wasnt that far off lol
    Thanks for the help!
     
  8. Justin Schmidt

    Justin Schmidt Schmidt Forge Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 18, 2016
    Unfortunately I don't have a RC tester
     
  9. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    You will lose 2 or more Rc points if you are out by more than 20f, optimum is +/-10f. It’s a small window. Is there anyone near who has a tester?
     
  10. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    Without doing a range of coupons and at least having them checked for hardness you're really in the dark about what you are actually getting.
     
  11. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    He could use my old protocol, but people were reporting needing 1475-1480 for the second last batch, but the newest one is back to 1460? I’m not sure what to suggest without coupons,
     
    Justin Schmidt likes this.
  12. Justin Schmidt

    Justin Schmidt Schmidt Forge Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 18, 2016
    Guess I'll hold off on the w2 until I can get a hardness tester
     
    Robert Erickson and DevinT like this.

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