Another Gun Show score, a commemorative Camillus USMC Raider Stiletto...

PocketKnifeJimmy

PocketKnifeJimmy

Joined
Aug 4, 2013
Messages
3,988
The local big Gun show is held twice a year in my area. Anyhow, I try to hit it both on Sat & Sun when it's in town. Saturday's excursion had me scoring on a mint condition 70's to 80's vintage Parker Cutlery Company 'Eagle Brand' Tanto knife.
Well, I went again today, (Sunday), and ran across a vendor with a Camillus commemorative of the Marine Corps Stiletto knife. My understanding is that the original was made in numbers just shy of 15,000 specimens.
This commemorative rendition is said to have numbered at around 2,000 specimens.
The original had a cast zinc handle, where as this commemorative has a handle cast in pewter.
I was able to do very little online research before making the decision to buy it, but my gut feeling was that it was easily worth the $200 price tag. So, yes, here I have it in my car as I prepare to leave today's Gun Show excursion.
It seems like a neat piece, and is obviously an item that was intended as a show piece, and has that mint unused condition that one would expect such an item to have. It has only one very minor issue, and that is that the key to lock the display's two latches, is missing. But, since the latches are not locked, I have no need for the key to simply open and close it.
Camillus Cutlery in Camillus NY went belly up in 2007, and with only 2,000 of these in circulation, I again believe I did very well in the price paid for this aquisition. I just couldn't pass it up, it simply having a very high coolness factor :)



As is usual for me with such items, I will continue doing some more research on it to see what indeed I have purchased :)
 
Last edited:
From Tom Williams, Camillus Cutlery Co. Historian, 8/14/2000

Camillus Cutlery Co. produced the USMC Raider's Stiletto in 1942 and a total of 14,370 knives were made. The Camillus version featured a cast zinc handle with the USMC scroll and Camillus maker's markings etched on the blade.

In the late 1980's, Camillus offered a reproduction and 2,000 knives were produced. The reproduction Stilettos featured a cast pewter handle, blued blade and the USMC scroll and Camillus name were etched in gold. Most of these knives were packaged in a wood display case with a red velvet lining.

After the 2,000 reproduction Stilettos were sold, the remaining knives, without the blued blades and gold etching, were etched "CAMILLUS" and were offered during the early and mid 1990's.
 
PocketKnifeJimmy said:
If you don't mind my asking... Did you buy it back when they were first being offered? If so, what was the list price at that time?
Thanks in advance :)
Click to expand...

I seem to recall buying it in the late 80's early 90's but honestly I could not say exactly when or even where.

Apologies but I could not tell you what I paid for it. It was just to long ago with to many knives and to much static between then and now.;)
 


My google searches have not found any of those 1,998 other owners of these knives that would possibly be currently selling them, so I don't know what range in price they are currently fetching.
I expected to at least be able to find prior/completed online auction sales of this knife to see where they stand in current value, but that's been a tougher task to accomplish than I thought it would be.
With 2,000 having been produced, I wouldn't place this knife as being rare, but definitely limited and somewhat scarce. That said, I expected to be able to find more of them online for sale, or that have been sold, than I have found. The current average going value of this knife is eluding me.

My paying the $200 price tag seemed to be a fair deal.
I base that on the following...
*Camillus Cutlery in NY went defunct in 2007
*The knife has 30 years under it's belt
*It's in mint condition
*The quality construction is apparent
*It was limited to a 2,000 production number
*Blued blade, gold etching, and a pewter handle
*Although it's a commemorative, it was made by the company that actually produced the military originals, which are very historic, very sought after, somewhat scarce, and pricey on the collector's scene
* It comes complete with it's original oak display case and engraved brass plaque, (both in great condition as well)
*And last, but certainly not least... I think it's very cool! :)

Heck, I wouldn't even be surprised if this knife was selling for at least $200 back when it was first being offered 30 years ago :)

I did find some of the military issued originals currently being sold, and those are worth a pretty penny! I was reading about those originals, and it seems like the cast zinc handles have been a major weak point on them as they've aged.
I can't help but to think of some kitchen and bathroom faucet hardware made of zinc alloy, and how brittle that stuff gets when it breaks down, (corrosion and such).
The pic above is the handle on the commemorative I just acquired, and although I was thinking that Camillus went with pewter on these to possibly add to the premium'ness of this commemorative... Now I'm thinking they just wanted to stay away from the zinc alloy to help in it's longevity, (for posterity).

One of the things that drew me to it today at the gun show, was when the vendor, (Wallace Rockwell), told me it had a cast pewter handle. I somewhat know this vendor, since I have visited his cutlery shop in downtown Camillus NY, which is located right across the street from the building that remains from the now defunct Camillus Cutlery factory. His knife shop is just a few miles away from where I live. He had been an important Camillus Cutlery employee before they shut their doors. He was also friends with the late Tom Williams, (the Camillus Cutlery Company Historian).
I guess he purchased this, (and some other knives), off of one of his cutlery shop customers. I was interested in the knife when I saw it being displayed on his gun show vendor table, but when I asked if I could inspect it, he told me the person he bought it from had lost the key(s) to the display box it was in. The latches were locked, so I could only visually see through the glass at one side of the knife.
I was simply not going to purchase the knife if I could not see the other side of it. But, he tried some of the keys from other display cases, and one was able to turn the locked latches to the unlocked position. Well, once I was able to see that both sides of the knife were in perfect condition, it sealed the deal :)

 
Last edited:
I continue to search and find little tid bits about this knife and about the historic originals it commemorates.
It's so amazing how much history has to offer us about just about any item we acquire, especially about something so historic as the Camillus Marine Raider Stiletto.
I have a ton of fun learning about new aquisitions, and this one is certainly no exception :)

The facinating learning of these histories, just another reason I love my hobby :)

On a somewhat related note... Within the past couple/few years, Kabar came out with a limited cast aluminum handled knife, but the price was something in the order of about $1000, a wee bit too steep for my consideration... But seems very cool, nonetheless :)

 
Last edited:
PocketKnifeJimmy said:
After the 2,000 reproduction Stilettos were sold, the remaining knives, without the blued blades and gold etching, were etched "CAMILLUS" and were offered during the early and mid 1990's.
Click to expand...
hO2Qu66.jpg

iJRrLIO.jpg
 
MerryMadMonk said:
hO2Qu66.jpg

iJRrLIO.jpg
Click to expand...

It does not surprise me that Camillus used up the remaining blades left over after their 2,000 pieces of the Marine Raider Stiletto run was finished.
When I was speaking to Wallace Rockwell one day at his cutlery store, I asked him about this particular knife I acquired...





I had tried asking about it on the forums, but most folks, (at that time), dismissed it as it likely being a home made kitchen table top contraption, (not factory).
You see, Camillus Cutlery had made a 50th anniversary WW2 series, (I believe around the same period that they were working on the Marine Raider Stiletto commemorative project), and the same blade that's on my "KaBar style" knife, (blued with gold etching), was used in that series. But, the series that they ran also had a gold plated pommel & guard, a polished leather handle, and an unsharpened blade.
Mine deviated from those specs by having a standard black pommel, a standard black guard, and a standard matte finished leather handle. To top it off, mine has a sharpened edge AND a sharpened top swedge. The sharpened portions, and everything else about the knife, screamed out as being factory done. But since nobody seemed to have seen one like it, the consensus was that it was likely an outside the factory made knife.
Fast forward to my conversation with Wallace Rockwell, and he told me it was not unusual for Camillus to use up the parts in some other way when a series had been completed. He explained that my specimen was not shocking to him, fitting in with how things were done :)
So, now my seeing how Camillus used up the left over parts from their commemorative Marine Raider Stiletto knife edition, and after my conversation with Mr. Rockwell, I'm now pretty certain that my Camillus Marine Corps utility/fighting knife is a factory built knife. I also believe they made VERY few like it.
My memory of the exact price I paid for this knife is slightly blurry, but I know it was 50, 55, or 60 bucks, which I feel was an absolute steal for this knife and it's mint condition :)
 
Last edited:
PocketKnifeJimmy said:
It does not surprise me that Camillus used up the remaining blades left over after their 2,000 Marine Raider Stiletto run was finished.
When I was speaking to Wallace Rockwell one day at his cutlery store, I asked him about this particular knife I acquired...



I had tried asking about it on the forums, but most folks dismissed it as being a home kitchen table top made knife.
You see, the Camillus Cutlery had made a 50th anniversary WW2 series, and this blade on my knife, (blued with gold etching), was used in that series. But, the series that they ran had a gold plated pommel & guard, a polished leather handle, and un un-sharpened blade edge.
Mine has the standard black pommel & guard, standard matte finished leather handle, and a sharpened edge & top swedge.
Wallace Rockwell told me it was not unusual to use up the parts in some other way when a series was done. He explained that my specimen was not shocking to him, fitting in with how things were done :)
Click to expand...

You've got a great source of information on Camillus. For those that may not know, Wallace Rockwell grew up in Camillus and worked for the Cutlery for over 30 years. During the last half of his career at Camillus, he set up and ran the custom shop and designed/worked on prototypes. I've bought quite a few knives from him. Great to deal with.
 
I wonder how those "extra" differently put together knives will fare with hard core Camillus Cutlery collectors in the future. I mean, the further out we get from their 2007 shut-down, the more some collectors may seek out things that may not have been the norm and that were non cataloged, but still factory produced.
As an example, the Marine Raider Stiletto Commemorative was set for a 2,000 total production run. The remaining parts got made up and sold off without bluing on the blades, and a simpler Camillus blade etching. The total number of these "extra parts" knives were probably way lower than the 2,000 in the original commemorative series, and are therefore more rare.
I guess one never knows how the ball will roll :)
 
Last edited:
tongueriver said:
Those are wonderful! I gave the M3 in the Camillus commemorative gold plated version to my stepson in the military; it was of awesome quality.
Click to expand...

I actually had that one too, but I sadly sold it, (and just about all my other personal belongings), when my ex wife and I divorced about 13 years ago.
I needed a fresh start, and so much of those material things reminded me of the life I was trying to move on from.
Still, it was a very handsome and well made knife.. Truly purty!

My entire current collection, (of knives and other do-dads), were acquired after that situation 13 years ago. I did have a stall in my collection hobby reboot, since I had lost the zest of collecting for a while during the early stages of my divorcing situation.
It re-started after buying a couple guns and a few pocket knives, then... WAH LAH, the old bug came back to me as strong as ever. I have caught up pretty well since! ;)

I don't see such a lapse in my collecting hobby happening again... This time my stopping will only occur when I pass away :)
 
Last edited:
The more information I run across online concerning the original USMC Raiders Stiletto knives, the more I realize how severe their Zinc alloy handles deterioration is. I guess if nothing can be found to stop this phenomenon, they will all eventually deteriorate away. So, even a very nice original specimen found today, will eventually not be intact for posterity as time goes by.
It's crazy to think that these knives, that can be worth in the 2 thousand dollars, (or more), price range, are slowly going to keep having their handles deteriorate. And that is no matter the care given to them. Sad these pieces of history are all headed that way.

The following pics are borrowed from another online source...


This pic above shows one with deterioration having taken it's toll on an original military specimen.

The pic below shows a nice ensemble of originals and reproductions.


And this pic showing the two Camillus made & branded reproductions...


5677L99 USMC Raider Stiletto:
With its 7-inch dagger style polished blade and knurled, die cast zinc "Coke bottle" shaped handle - the USMC
Raider Stiletto was also another important fighting knife along with the #5684L77. "This knife is the rarest and
most valuable model made by Camillus" states Camillus' historian, Tom Williams. It was patterned after the
famous Fairbairn-Sykes dagger, a tool known for effective "sentry removal." Camillus basically modified the
Fairbairn-Sykes design to make it more user friendly such as making the handle oval shaped as opposed to the
Fairbairn's round handle - which tended to have an effect on the user's grip. In total, about 15,000 pieces
were made, and a small percentage of that were made with Parkerized blades (model 5677L19). The coated
ones were shipped off to the Canadian Airborne, and are the versions that are fetching most value out on the
collector market today. Total amount produced: 14, 370.
 
Last edited:
My continued online information searching about these knives, (originals & reproductions), has me now finding another repro variation done by Camillus.
Notice how the blade differs from the Camillus originals and the Camillus commemorative...



The double edges do not go all the way down to meet the guard area. And, the ricasso/tang area has the stamped in Camillus info.

The following are a couple pics I also found online which seems to show the same deviated blade, (again by Camillus). This was supposedly from an incompleted batch of blades that were sold off at auction after Camillus went bankrupt.




I have not seen any pics of an original Camillus military USMC Raider Stilettos being done this way, (nor are the two later reproductions made up for their commemorative run made this way). So, I do wonder why they decided to offer deviated versions like these, not fully following the basic blade design of their military originals, nor their first run commemoratives.
I have been reading that the first run commemorative of these knives by Camillus, were done using a batch of unfinished military stiletto blades that they found in a 55 gallon drum. I guess the ones shown with a different ricasso, (if that's the correct term), were made after that drum's contents were exhausted, and therefore these different version blades were always slated to be civilian market aimed.
That's just some guessing on my part ;)

As I mentioned before, my paying $200 for a Camillus made commemorative of the USMC Raider Stiletto, is fine with me, since it was worth the price of admission to own the specimen.
That said, I'm not immune from the curiosity of wanting to know what the current market value is for it. My search has come up almost empty. The only somewhat recent price I found, (where I didn't have to pay a fee to get access to it), was an identical one being sold in 2013, (having the same red felt lining, brass plaque, and Camillus branded oak display case), on an online auction site, (that big site that everyone can find something to buy or sell on). The price was $650, but I have no idea if it sold for that price. It did have a "or best offer" option, so again, no idea on what it actually sold for. Although I really like my new addition to my collection, I would not have considered it at that kind of price. It simply would have been too rich for my blood at that price.
My curiosity will continue, and feel I'll likely learn even more about these knives, and maybe even be able to run across an online recent selling of one of the commemorative knives, (like the one I purchased), and finally get the scoop on what kind of value they currenty hold :)
 
Last edited:
I finally had success in running into a current online auction that would give me an idea of what the current market value is on my recently acquired Camillus USMC Raider Stiletto Commemorative knife.
The online auction had someone placing an identical specimen up for sale this past week, it ending today. This particular online auction has professional appraisers available to the sellers, and had the knife valued at $310 to $340.
So, I went ahead and followed the auction until it ended today. The final bid was at $226, (which would have actually cost the buyer over $250 when s&h and a 9% buyer's fee are included), but the seller's minimum acceptable bid was not met, so a sale was not made.

Anyhow, it at least gave me an idea of how much the knife is currently valued at.
With my having paid an even $200, it does indeed seem like it was a good buy on my part :)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top