Recommendation? Antique Blade restoration

[ascent]

Hey everyone. I am being gifted my family's civil war artillery sword.

Now, I am pretty far outside of my expertise here... I collect watches, and I know refinishing a watch case or dial, or replacing the hands can negatively impact the value... I suspect this might be the case with swords.

I was wondering if I could draw from this communities' wisdom to see what steps I should take to preserve and (maybe) restore this sword. Should I restore it? Or is this patina desirable? This is just so far outside of my wheelhouse that I know I am better off asking a community of enthusiasts.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Rich S]

I've known several Civil War collectors and they all preferred items in "as found" condition. So IMHO, I'd leave it alone.
Rich

 

[ascent]

thanks so much for the input. I really appreciate you.

so you wouldn't even worry about the surface rust at all? Interesting.

how do you feel about using some renaissance wax to prevent further rust and preserve it in it's current condition?

What's your take on the scabbard? it is broken into 3 pieces as near as I can tell. I have read that I should not store the sword in it as it will leave moisture on the blade.

Also, I was thinking of framing it. Do people do that, or is there a different more preferred method for presentation.

 

[mross]

A little WD-40 or Ballisol will help rid it of any loose rust and stop further damage. You can then go over it (after it soaks awhile) with a rag to wipe of the rust and excess oil. For the scabbard get some Pecards antique wax. I would hit it with the renaissance wax after a few go round with the oil.

 

[ascent]

thanks my dude!

 

[horseclover]

In this case, I would treat them separately and not store the blade in the scabbard. The sword is an Ames M1832 foot artillery sword There will be a date on the obverse of the address. The sword predates the Mexican War years.

Get a balsa wood plank (or other) from a hobby shop. For now, wrap the scabbard to the plank with plastic wrap (open ended to breathe). Set aside.

Buy or scrounge a pvc pipe and cap one end, this will be your tank. Insert the sword blade into the tank and fill with Evapo Rust. Alternately, saturate a cotton cloth and wrap the blade. Experiment with timing but the stuff will not etch the steel. Evapo Rust is environmentally ok but save the liquid (or if wrapping, summarily discard). Gently scrub the yuck off with a blue non scratch pot scrubber. If deciding on ren wax or other candy coating, do completely clean the blade of any oil, moisture and any oxidation at all is going to be trapped in there. I do not use waxes on most of my stuff.

Use a cloth saturated with Noxon (shake well), wrapping the brass and let it set for several hours. It contains oxalic acid, which will help soften lift most of the dirt. Do not buff bright unless you want to, what we are after is removing dirt and verdegris. Some are concerned about the ammonia in Noxon affecting brass but I have not found it to be a problem.

At the stage the scabbard is in, I would do nothing but hang onto all of its pieces unless you first clean it as best as one can before any attempt at rejuvenation. It appears to be that far gone. I have used Pecards Antique to good effect on a two century year old scabbard and even older leather grips but it was not caked in dirt and in pieces. I don't have your's in hand to evaluate. As mentioned, I would strap 'er down and just save it with other partials I have. Pecards is primarily white spirits and beeswax (and will darken leather).

These are just my thoughts. My 1833 dated example had been gun blued on top of rust, which is still a nightmare. What I see of your's may well show some nice remaining polish under the rust and yetch.

Clp and a soft cloth wouldn't hurt anything but the leather, which is best left as a relic.

Just my thoughts

Cheers
GC

 

[horseclover]

Here is a brass hilt during some dry cleaning just removing dirt with nothing but a pick and toothbrush.

It is a candidate to get resilvered but I'm not one to always go hog wild in "restoration"

My thoughts on your's goes to what Rich mentioned, just leave it alone. A lot of collectors want to see the condition before someone gets to it but just dealing with the active rust then leads to what looks to me a candidate for further cleaning. Noxon works well for me but sometimes, like the eagle that started out plated, I go a lot slower. That one has a clean blade and partial leather and although it would be fine stored that way (untouched for 200 years), the scabbard in one of the drawers with some others. I have a number of complete leather scabbards on blades back to the 18th century and those complete examples stay on the blades. Some have already been varnished or waxed during their life. Others simply unmessed with but clean and dry.

The one I treated with Pecards was about to crumble in dry rot but has been preserved and stable (but darkened).

 

[zzyzzogeton]

In this case, I would treat them separately and not store the blade in the scabbard. The sword is an Ames M1832 foot artillery sword There will be a date on the obverse of the address. The sword predates the Mexican War years.

Get a balsa wood plank (or other) from a hobby shop. For now, wrap the scabbard to the plank with plastic wrap (open ended to breathe). Set aside.

Buy or scrounge a pvc pipe and cap one end, this will be your tank. Insert the sword blade into the tank and fill with Evapo Rust. Alternately, saturate a cotton cloth and wrap the blade. Experiment with timing but the stuff will not etch the steel. Evapo Rust is environmentally ok but save the liquid (or if wrapping, summarily discard). Gently scrub the yuck off with a blue non scratch pot scrubber. If deciding on ren wax or other candy coating, do completely clean the blade of any oil, moisture and any oxidation at all is going to be trapped in there. I do not use waxes on most of my stuff.

Use a cloth saturated with Noxon (shake well), wrapping the brass and let it set for several hours. It contains oxalic acid, which will help soften lift most of the dirt. Do not buff bright unless you want to, what we are after is removing dirt and verdegris. Some are concerned about the ammonia in Noxon affecting brass but I have not found it to be a problem.

At the stage the scabbard is in, I would do nothing but hang onto all of its pieces unless you first clean it as best as one can before any attempt at rejuvenation. It appears to be that far gone. I have used Pecards Antique to good effect on a two century year old scabbard and even older leather grips but it was not caked in dirt and in pieces. I don't have your's in hand to evaluate. As mentioned, I would strap 'er down and just save it with other partials I have. Pecards is primarily white spirits and beeswax (and will darken leather).

These are just my thoughts. My 1833 dated example had been gun blued on top of rust, which is still a nightmare. What I see of your's may well show some nice remaining polish under the rust and yetch.

Clp and a soft cloth wouldn't hurt anything but the leather, which is best left as a relic.

Just my thoughts

Cheers
GC

Glen,

I, for one, really appreciate the detailed instructions on what to do. So many times people just say "Do Z" with no clues about the steps W, X and Y that must be done first.

 

[horseclover]

An additional note on dating this one (although there should be a date present). The Springfield mark places it between 1833 and 1841. Cabotville during the '40s and after Nathan died in '48 you have the beginnings of the Chicopee mark. The distiction between the marks wasn't location but rather different districts of Springfield being renamed.

If you should happen the find S.Huse on he guard, that would date it to the first three years of manufacture, with Huse doing the brass castings. These are all hollow by the way and one way to spot reproductions. The originals are two halves, then brazed together.

My 1833, as I found it

Never ending and some abrasives involved

It is a model I never thought I would own but I actually have come to appreciate more.

Cheers
GC

 

[ascent]

I just wanted to check back in and say THANKS to everyone who participated with advice.

Yall have given me some great things to think about. I really really appreciate the assistance!