Antique Ivory kitchen forks/spoons/knives

SteelAngelGabriel

SteelAngelGabriel

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Jan 20, 2021
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492
Hey Bladeforums check this out. I recently came into these ivory pieces and I don't know a whole lot about them. I was wondering if anyone knows anything about these or is even interested in them? How should I store these too if end keeping em? I ren wax on em a while back and I keep them out of the light.
 
Jack Black Jack Black might know about the maker since they were made in Sheffield.
He Might be able to give you a "no earlier than" date if he knows when the company started using stainless steel. 😇

Nice set. Service for four or eight?
The experts will know more than me, but I suspect your keeping them out of the sun and a relatively stable temperature and humidity range is not hurting them any.
 
afishhunter said:
Jack Black Jack Black might know about the maker since they were made in Sheffield.
He Might be able to give you a "no earlier than" date if he knows when the company started using stainless steel. 😇

Nice set. Service for four or eight?
The experts will know more than me, but I suspect your keeping them out of the sun and a relatively stable temperature and humidity range is not hurting them any.
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Hey thanks sir. I'll have to give him a shout and see if he can help me. Yes, I have them wrapped up and covered. I was thinking about trying to restore the yellow ones but I want to risk it since I can't confirm the material.
 
waynorth said:
Are the lines in the handle material consistent throughout the set?? If so, you may have "French" Ivory!!?? (celluloid) - I can't tell from your pictures!!
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SteelAngelGabriel said:
Does celluloid change in colo with age?
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Sadly, yes. ☹️
Many of the old clear/transparent celluloid covers that had/have artwork/pictures under them are now yellowed/fogged and transluscent.
Brightly colored "Candy Stripes" and others are now dull and faded. ☹️
I may be mistaken, but the changes may be related to outgassing. 🥺
 
afishhunter said:
Sadly, yes. ☹️
Many of the old clear/transparent celluloid covers that had/have artwork/pictures under them are now yellowed/fogged and transluscent.
Brightly colored "Candy Stripes" and others are now dull and faded. ☹️
I may be mistaken, but the changes may be related to outgassing. 🥺
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Sometimes it is outgassing, but "french ivory" has proven very stable, of all the celluloids; and it does darken with age!!:)
 
waynorth said:
"french ivory" has proven very stable, of all the celluloids; and it does darken with age!!:)
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No argument from me.
"French Ivory"/"Mother of Toilet Seat" ("MOT") is wihout question the most stable celluloid.
 
Very nice items and worth using. In France, giving a set of fine steak knives or if lucky a canteen of really good tableware are still items given as wedding presents, high quality table-ware is still appreciated there, part of the meal.Many look like fixed Laguioles or other patterns and are decorative.

I would not think these are Ivory though. Ivory has always been expensive- even when millions of Elephant roamed the world, it is very fragile and liable to cracking and warping with extremes of humidity, thus it is not really that suitable for table-ware. It can be found on Fruit table knives, more commonly MOP, on certain serving items such as Fish knife&server and would've been kept in its own Morocco leather case after careful washing. I've seen it as inlays on Silver teapot handles- Silver conducts heat very well and the Ivory segments were not only an ornament but as a kind of 'washer' to stop the handles getting too hot.

The c19th and c20th saw huge changes in tableware, mass-production and machine made blades made them affordable reliable and durable. The advent of stainless enhanced this as cleaning and drying large quantities of non stainless knives was a chore for hapless servants in big houses or in restaurants/hotels. There were knife polishing machines for this purpose but like hand powered coffee grinders a thankless task. 😩 Handle types were Sterling Silver, EPNS, Bone, Woods, early plastics,Rubber, Cell, the latter being popular in England at least, French Ivory as others have remarked. And it's thankfully durable compared to other Cell you can find on fancy pocket-knives.

I'd use them for special occasions , why not? Keep them out of prolonged light and look out for a box-canteen to keep them in, usually felt lined with divisions for various types etc.
 
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Well I've learned something today! My mother has a very similar set of "ivory" handled Sheffield knives, and I always thought they were actually elephant ivory. But it makes sense that even back in the day, they would have been celluloid. It also explains why the grains were so very even.

It will also come in handy at work to remember that "French Ivory" celluloid is a thing when we find old handles and such during archaeological projects. Now I just need to find out how to (non-destructively) identify celluloid as opposed to other plastics, so that I can estimate a time frame for the material.
 
I hear that French Ivory is different from other Cell type materials in that it has an element of Casein in it which is a milk protein found in other things such as paint & of course foods, it MAY explain the relative stability of this material compared with its more volatile Cell cousins? Believe GEC offered a very small run of Casein based scales in the early years .
 
abbydaddy said:
Well I've learned something today! My mother has a very similar set of "ivory" handled Sheffield knives, and I always thought they were actually elephant ivory. But it makes sense that even back in the day, they would have been celluloid. It also explains why the grains were so very even.

It will also come in handy at work to remember that "French Ivory" celluloid is a thing when we find old handles and such during archaeological projects. Now I just need to find out how to (non-destructively) identify celluloid as opposed to other plastics, so that I can estimate a time frame for the material.
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The presence of Schreger Lines always qualifies a piece as elephant ivory.
If you look these up, it really helps!!!
Celluloid is not as hard!! I put the knife on a table, rest a very sharp knife or razor on the handle gently, as if to cut the knife in half!!! 😲 Drag/scrape this edge sideways! If it tends to stick, it is plastic!! If it "skates", slides, it is Ivory!!:)
 
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