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Price is $300 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
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Antonini Old Bear features/quality
- Thread starter pandreas
- Start date
Thanks! So no general feature, more a question of the quality of the copy in the video.
Do you carry the Old Bear in the trouser pocket? My question would be whether the twist lock handle can make demage or open from itself since it somehow protrudes from the knife.
Do you carry the Old Bear in the trouser pocket? My question would be whether the twist lock handle can make demage or open from itself since it somehow protrudes from the knife.
afishhunter
Gold Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2014
- Messages
- 14,244
Mine locks solid open or closed ... if I bother using the lock.
Henry Beige
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2015
- Messages
- 3,718
The blade on my small one pulls out, much like the one in the video. This is with the lock ring pushed all the way over. On my large one, the lock ring only moves halfway over before the blade locks up tight. I don’t know if that has more to do with the cut of the tang, the placement of the pivot, or the shape of the ring itself.
I never noticed this before, but obviously it doesn't’ matter to me. I bought my knives on line, at separate times, so it never occurred to me to ask the vendor about it.
FWIW, the smaller of my knives is pretty close to an Opinel 7, while the larger is about the size of an 8. These are the only sizes that were available from Baryonyx at the time. I don’ know if other sizes are available, or if they can be had in carbon steel.
I never noticed this before, but obviously it doesn't’ matter to me. I bought my knives on line, at separate times, so it never occurred to me to ask the vendor about it.
FWIW, the smaller of my knives is pretty close to an Opinel 7, while the larger is about the size of an 8. These are the only sizes that were available from Baryonyx at the time. I don’ know if other sizes are available, or if they can be had in carbon steel.
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Thanks! According to blade steel to my understanding Opinel is better than Old Bear featuring XC90 vs. C70 Carbon steel, respectively Sandvik 12c27 + additional 0,4 C vs. plain Aisi 420, isn't it?
Depending on application it may not make a lot difference while maybe yes.
https://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=XC90, C70&hrn=1&gm=0
https://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=12C27,420&ni=,443&hrn=1&gm=0
(The Opinel modified 12C27 with some 1 C which is then quite high for stainless steel).
Depending on application it may not make a lot difference while maybe yes.
https://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=XC90, C70&hrn=1&gm=0
https://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=12C27,420&ni=,443&hrn=1&gm=0
(The Opinel modified 12C27 with some 1 C which is then quite high for stainless steel).
Yes, indeed I ordered one, in size XL (10cm blade size) and today it arrived.
Two surprises:
It IS possible to pull the blade out when locked closed - some 4mm. Seemingly it is no bug of certain copies, but a bug (or feature?) of the construction, since the lock is not tapered towards the closed blade, only towards the opened blade. Not really good. Maybe the reason is that the latch may get too weak if this quite narrow latch is tappered from two sides. Opinels do not have the problem since their lock ring is very broad. I also do not like this protruding handle of the Old Bear latch; my feeling as an engineer tells me "Don't do this!"
Second surprise is that the blade of my copy is marked W 1.4060 Nitrogen; I could not find a lot about this, but it actually may be a better steel than 420, maybe more like 440.
Further I noticed that the Old Bear blade has only 1.8mm thickness (compared to 2.2mm at Opinel No 10). So most likely Antonini uses 2mm steel plate, while Opinel uses 2.5mm steel plate before grinding down. I noticed it when I had the feeling that the blade of the Old Bear is somehow more flexible than on my Opinel.
If there is anything to repair, then most likely the main rivet/splint needs to be taken out as in the one video, while the lock ring of the Opinel can be strengthened or loosened using spring-ring pliers (or an appropriate slot screw driver...).
The Olive handle looks nice but there is no real finish in the sense that there is a sufficient layer of varnish.
Similar to some Opinel the blade does not move very easily. I need some time to test; on my Opinel sunflower oil helped a lot so that blade moves nicely while water cannot penetrate that easy into the head of the handle anymore. I will do the same with the Old Bear.
Last but not least the price. The cheepest Old Bear XL I could get, almost, was a Olive tree handle version for 22,80 Euro plus shipping (was an occasion at knifestock.de respectively knifestock.sk). Walnut would have been some 2 Euro less. I did not necessarily like to obtain an Olive handle but I also did not like to buy wood, which seems to come from outside Europe as the walnut handle or any laminated wood. There is seemingly no kind of budget version made from local wood like beech from sustainable cultivated forests as Opinel does. Olive is seemingly the only wood from Italy they work with. In general Old Bear prices at least in this blade size are quite high compared to Opinel; most well beyond 30 Euro. In comparison, for my Opinel No 10 I paid below 14 Euro plus shipping.
So given, that the Old Bear was some 65% more expensive than my Opinel, that the twist lock does not work properly for the closed knife, while having a protruding part and that the blade is quite weak for that size, I'd definitely not buy it again. If others would ask for a recommendation, I certainly would not recommend the Old Bear knife.
In Germany by the way at least since the 80ies the Opinels are somehow "the knife" of the boy scouts which made them known in Germany.
So now I climb out of the rabbit hole again!-)
Two surprises:
It IS possible to pull the blade out when locked closed - some 4mm. Seemingly it is no bug of certain copies, but a bug (or feature?) of the construction, since the lock is not tapered towards the closed blade, only towards the opened blade. Not really good. Maybe the reason is that the latch may get too weak if this quite narrow latch is tappered from two sides. Opinels do not have the problem since their lock ring is very broad. I also do not like this protruding handle of the Old Bear latch; my feeling as an engineer tells me "Don't do this!"
Second surprise is that the blade of my copy is marked W 1.4060 Nitrogen; I could not find a lot about this, but it actually may be a better steel than 420, maybe more like 440.
Further I noticed that the Old Bear blade has only 1.8mm thickness (compared to 2.2mm at Opinel No 10). So most likely Antonini uses 2mm steel plate, while Opinel uses 2.5mm steel plate before grinding down. I noticed it when I had the feeling that the blade of the Old Bear is somehow more flexible than on my Opinel.
If there is anything to repair, then most likely the main rivet/splint needs to be taken out as in the one video, while the lock ring of the Opinel can be strengthened or loosened using spring-ring pliers (or an appropriate slot screw driver...).
The Olive handle looks nice but there is no real finish in the sense that there is a sufficient layer of varnish.
Similar to some Opinel the blade does not move very easily. I need some time to test; on my Opinel sunflower oil helped a lot so that blade moves nicely while water cannot penetrate that easy into the head of the handle anymore. I will do the same with the Old Bear.
Last but not least the price. The cheepest Old Bear XL I could get, almost, was a Olive tree handle version for 22,80 Euro plus shipping (was an occasion at knifestock.de respectively knifestock.sk). Walnut would have been some 2 Euro less. I did not necessarily like to obtain an Olive handle but I also did not like to buy wood, which seems to come from outside Europe as the walnut handle or any laminated wood. There is seemingly no kind of budget version made from local wood like beech from sustainable cultivated forests as Opinel does. Olive is seemingly the only wood from Italy they work with. In general Old Bear prices at least in this blade size are quite high compared to Opinel; most well beyond 30 Euro. In comparison, for my Opinel No 10 I paid below 14 Euro plus shipping.
So given, that the Old Bear was some 65% more expensive than my Opinel, that the twist lock does not work properly for the closed knife, while having a protruding part and that the blade is quite weak for that size, I'd definitely not buy it again. If others would ask for a recommendation, I certainly would not recommend the Old Bear knife.
In Germany by the way at least since the 80ies the Opinels are somehow "the knife" of the boy scouts which made them known in Germany.
So now I climb out of the rabbit hole again!-)
SharpBits
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,849
Interesting to see the pricing differences. I can get Old Bears in walnut for less than similar Opinel knives here in the US. Must be due to name recognition here as Opinel are far more popular.
My smaller Old Bear blade is unable to be moved while the lock is engaged in the close position. Maybe there is great variability depending on the cutler who makes a particular knife?
My smaller Old Bear blade is unable to be moved while the lock is engaged in the close position. Maybe there is great variability depending on the cutler who makes a particular knife?
Is the latch tapered in the close position? If no then I could not believe that it is not possible. Between latch and blade there is maybe less than a half millimeter on my copy, mybe just some 3/10 of a mm but that is enough to pull it out by some 4mm at the tip of the blade. If it is not possible to pull it out allthough the latch is not tapered it means that the fit was done in a precession of less as something like 0.1 mm. I think this can't be done in a price range like this. Then your copy is a very lucky copy... ...how much are the knives in the US?
Then congratulations for your copy!
Those you compared: Most likely it is not a No 10 Opinel, is it? Everything else than standard beech tree is seen as "luxury" at Opinel and only produced in very limited sizes. I believe usually between No7 and No9, some maybe only No 8. No 8 however for my taste is clearly to small for my hands. Also my wife prefers 10 over 8. We do not have a No 9. When comparing an Opinel No 8 with something then you should take in account, that it has a blade size of 8.5 cm. So you could compare it to both an Antonini M or L. Opinel No 7 has 8 cm blade size, so this would be Antonini M, and Opinel No 6 with 7cm blade length (Antonini S). Smaller Opinels No 2 to No 5 also have longer blades than their model number indicates but no lock ring.
Opinels No 8 cost some 10 Euro. The price differences to smaller sizes is neglectable. So it is somehow the standard Opinel size for most people. Look e.g. here:
https://www.engelbert-strauss.de/ei...bone-7181060-5076272-0.html?itemorigin=SEARCH
How much is a standard beech tree Opinel No 10 and a Antonini XL in the US?
Even if Antonini would be cheeper than Opinel people may prefer Opinel since it is an iconic knife and Antonini is just a copy (with for me some bad tasting flavors). Somehow like Coke and Pepsi!-)
Those you compared: Most likely it is not a No 10 Opinel, is it? Everything else than standard beech tree is seen as "luxury" at Opinel and only produced in very limited sizes. I believe usually between No7 and No9, some maybe only No 8. No 8 however for my taste is clearly to small for my hands. Also my wife prefers 10 over 8. We do not have a No 9. When comparing an Opinel No 8 with something then you should take in account, that it has a blade size of 8.5 cm. So you could compare it to both an Antonini M or L. Opinel No 7 has 8 cm blade size, so this would be Antonini M, and Opinel No 6 with 7cm blade length (Antonini S). Smaller Opinels No 2 to No 5 also have longer blades than their model number indicates but no lock ring.
Opinels No 8 cost some 10 Euro. The price differences to smaller sizes is neglectable. So it is somehow the standard Opinel size for most people. Look e.g. here:
https://www.engelbert-strauss.de/ei...bone-7181060-5076272-0.html?itemorigin=SEARCH
How much is a standard beech tree Opinel No 10 and a Antonini XL in the US?
Even if Antonini would be cheeper than Opinel people may prefer Opinel since it is an iconic knife and Antonini is just a copy (with for me some bad tasting flavors). Somehow like Coke and Pepsi!-)
I've now complained about the issue and I've got following answer from Antonini:
-----------------------
Dear Andreas,
Thank you for your email dated 10.11.2024 and for having contact us... even if, due to a technical problem!
In a company that produces in series but where the role of manual skills and of the persons are still fundamental, finding imperfections or possible defects is "human" and therefore - as in this specific case - we are ready to take our responsibility for the claimed problem!
It is a state of fact that when, in closed and blocked position, the tip of the blade comes out by some 4mm, this is definitively a defect!
.....
----------------------
So according to them it is seemingly a defect and I've sent back the knife to the dealer, hoping that I get back a knife without problems.
They've confirmed that they produce now in W 1.4060 Nitrogen, which for my taste is clearly better than 420. And they've sent me a catalogue where a knife is visible with a Torx screw instead of a pin. So maybe in the future we will se a somehow adjustable version.
-----------------------
Dear Andreas,
Thank you for your email dated 10.11.2024 and for having contact us... even if, due to a technical problem!
In a company that produces in series but where the role of manual skills and of the persons are still fundamental, finding imperfections or possible defects is "human" and therefore - as in this specific case - we are ready to take our responsibility for the claimed problem!
It is a state of fact that when, in closed and blocked position, the tip of the blade comes out by some 4mm, this is definitively a defect!
.....
----------------------
So according to them it is seemingly a defect and I've sent back the knife to the dealer, hoping that I get back a knife without problems.
They've confirmed that they produce now in W 1.4060 Nitrogen, which for my taste is clearly better than 420. And they've sent me a catalogue where a knife is visible with a Torx screw instead of a pin. So maybe in the future we will se a somehow adjustable version.