Anvil Primer?

TK Steingass

TK Steingass

Knifemaker - Buckeye
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
5,620
Greetings Fellas:

As some of you know, I'm a stock removal guy .....at 65, with tendonitis, arthritis, tennis elbow, and CRS disease (can't remember s...), I recon it's a little late for me to begin bladesmithing. :D

My son Matthew started apprenticing for me - he just got out of the Navy after five years as a corpsman/medic with the Marines in Okinawa....he's a third generation Navy man. After a bit of time in my shop, I'm going to send Matthew to Ed Caffrey's Bladesmithing School which I understand is VA approved. He seems quite interested in making San Mai.

I'd appreciate some guidance on anvils. I looked at anvils4sale.com and was blown away by the prices - especially for the old German anvils. What American anvils would you fellas recommend and weights? Another thought comes to mind - should I just save my money and buy a Little Atlas power hammer?

Many thanks,

TK
 
Last edited:
"CRS disease (can't remember s...)"

I told my wife I have this (along with all the other stuff you mentioned btw + sleep apnea) and she cracked up. Reading that phrase made my morning. Thank you TK.................... I still love your knives btw

I also don't know s... about anvils other then anyone who has one seems to sell them (like gold, by the ounce, or worse yet, by the gram, like saffron).

I'm gonna use that as an excuse for things moving forward.

Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
 
Anvil sellers seem to be of the "old is gold" mentality. Some are worth the expense, others not. I was able to pick up a 120# Trenton a few years back. It has been working very nicely for me. It's a nice size for a small operation like mine and has good rebound. I suppose the anvil advice you get will depend a bit on your budget and how big of an anvil (and what pattern) you think you need.
 
T.K.,

If you and/or your son are planning on doing damascus, san-mai, or just plain forging (especially from heavy flat or round stock), then a power hammer or good press will save wear and tear on the body, as well as time.

However, you will still need a good anvil in order to fine tune your work. A good anvil is a necessity for anyone who forges.

I bought this one http://oldworldanvils.com/anvils/two_horn_classic.html (260 lb. model) several years ago and love it. When I bought mine several years ago, I got it delivered for under a grand. Now they are over $1600. plus shipping.

You can find good anvils out there. It just takes a little time and patience.

If you are in the market for a great press, contact Ron Claiborn in Knoxville, TN. I think he is still making them. I have seen and used one of his, and they are great machines. I have also heard pretty good reviews of the one that Uncle Al at Riverside Machine makes.

Hope the above ramblings will be of help.

Robert
 
TK,

I'd suggest an anvil weighing 150 pounds or more. There are plenty of quality brands and I'd suggest seeing what your search reveals and research the brand from there. Condition will be more important than brand, IMO. Personally, I like Hay Hidden and Fisher anvils. I've found users offer better prices than dealers and collectors. Keep an eye on eBay and craigslist. Also, a local blacksmithing group (if you have one) may know where some are available.
Good luck with your search.

Brett
 
There are a couple of anvil makers in Washington. Google, Incandescent Iron Works, theirs is a cast through hardened steel with a HRc @ 56. There is another maker in Anacortes ?? or Port Townsend?? I don't remember which, who makes a good anvil.
 
All GREAT feedback - I love this place! Where am I again? :D
 
If the prices on those old refflinghaus' scare you, price a new one. Ebay and collectors have really raised the price on anvils, but if you keep looking you'll come across one at a decent price. Trenton, Arm and hammer, and I think Acme were all made here in Columbus. If you can find one that was made later it will have a solid tool steel top welded at the waist to a wrought iron base. Hay budden's were made in new york. Fisher's in new jersey. The fisher is the only cast iron anvil with a tool steel top that imho can be called an anvil. They are very quiet if you're in a residential neighborhood. I know some that like Vulcan anvils,but their tops are very thin. Nothing wrong with the English anvils that came across the pond either The 140# Hadfeld Sanderson I have has a harder top than my Trenton.
You don't have to be stuck on a London pattern anvil either. A walk through your local scrap yard will more than likely yield something that can be used as a post anvil and for scrap price. At least until you can find something that suits you better. If having a hardie concerns you set up a post vise next to your anvil, it will hold all the tooling a hardie will. I welded a piece of plate with a hardie I cut into it onto an upright of I beam. I do all my punching, drifting, and cutting with chisels on this. It saves my anvils from damage and me from shedding a tear.
 
Ok. Are you on facebook? If so, there is a group called "anvils." Some of us from here are on it. If you really want to look at old anvils, and get an education on pricing, repair, and some good advice in real time about what to buy, that's a good place to go.

I see that you are in West Virginia. There ought to be an ABANA chapter or other organization of working smiths in your area. Often that is your best bet, if looking for a decent used anvil at a decent price. Antiques dealers will be trying to rip you off, whether they know it or not. If you have some education about what to look for, sometimes you can get a deal from one.

Craigslist can be either a wash, or a real resource. I've seen good and terrible deals equally.

What you pay and what's available will often be a product of your location. Hopefully you do not live in an "anvil poor" part of the country.

Here's a basic idea of pricing for used anvils as I see it, in an average area of anvil content.

Anvil with lots of face, entire horn, or tail missing, or no rebound- doorstop. Scrap price.

Beat up anvil, lots of broken edge, busted heel or horn, but still some decent flat area with hard face to work on, over 100 lbs. but under 300:
$1-$2/lb. depending on repairability and overall condition.

Anvil with fair edges, fairly flat, no major damage, good rebound, over 100 lbs. but under 300:
$2-$3/lb.

Anvil in very good shape, flat face, good rebound, same weight range,
$2-$4/lb. Try not to have to pay 4 though.

For anvils under 100 lbs., don't bother unless you need a travel model. Too light for serious work. For anvils over 300 lbs. you may have to adjust your prices upward by $1/lb or more as bigger anvils in good shape are rarer and more sought after. The same is true for all anvils in low-anvil-density areas- supply and demand affect prices adversely for you.

An anvil should have good rebound foremost. Bring a large steel ball bearing if you have one, to drop on the anvil face to check rebound. You want at least 50% but really should be looking for 70-90% bounce back to your hand. Or, you can use a hammer- just kind of drop it loosely (but flat) on the anvil face, and let it bounce back in a very light grip to guage the rebound.

Anvil ring doesn't mean a lot. Fisher anvils don't ring although they are some of the best. That is because they are cast iron with a steel face. Vulcans are too, but not as high quality. You will often see Vulcans with broken or missing face plates. No bueno on those. A standard forged steel or wrought iron anvil with a steel face (Hay-Budden, Peter Wright, Trenton, Arm&Hammer, etc.) will usually ring- a dull sound here could indicate a crack or partially seprated face, so keep an eye out for that. On the whole, many of us have to really deaden the ring of our anvils as this most romantic sound quickly becomes obnoxious.

You will occasionally see an other wise good looking anvil, with a good brand name, that has no rebound or very little. Don't buy it, it's probably been through a fire. Unless of course you want to try re-hardening it, and it can be had for like 50 cent/lb. Just know that hardening an anvil face over about 100 lbs. is a pretty hard thing to do.

Farrier's anvil can work OK, but usually are not ideal. Much of that wieght you're shelling out your hard earned $ for will be located in an oversize horn, heel, and/or turning cams- features you don't need that can get in the way. Also, a lot of the mass is not under the main forging area of the face with these types of anvils.

Lastly I'd say BE PATIENT. It's kind of like buying a used car, a significant expenditure sometimes, something that you will be stuck with for a while and may regret if the decision was made in haste, yet if you persevere and find the right one, the older ones have more soul and are prettier.
 
Last edited:
http://www.anvilbrand.com/AB-LEGEND-200-LB-ANVIL-ANVIL-JHM-ANVILS-P3634.aspx
If you jus want to get a new one, this would work pretty good. You could probably do better watching Craig's list though. Kolswa,Hay Budden, Peter wright, Trenton are all good. Vulcans are so so. Look for a flat face with decent edges and rebound of 75% or so. Check this by dropping a ball bearing and compare how high it rebounds from how high it was dropped. I have a pretty good one, but your a long way from me! I'd put ya up for night!
 
I love anvils and currently own three london-pattern anvils.

What do you look for in an anvil? Mass under the hammer's impact zone. That's it. For bladesmithing, a horn, hardy hole and pritchel hole are pretty unused parts of a london-pattern anvil, so that means you can get a lot of work done with a stump anvil, sometimes called a post anvil. Basically, this is a large chunk of iron (like a train's axle) that you stand upright and hammer on the end of.

This is an example (replica) of a viking-age anvil. Not much to it, is there? Probably weighs around 30# and is solidly mounted to the stump so it doesn't rob energy from your hammer blow. Primitive cultures around the world still use similar chunks of iron and still produce wonderful quality blades.

146stumpAnvilCXBest.jpg


Here's a great video of a Laotian smith and his strikers making what looks like a hoe (even if they call it an axe). Again, the anvil is nothing more than a cylinder of metal that's been firmly planted in the ground.

[video=youtube;01XAWVP1444]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01XAWVP1444[/video]

Last video, I promise. It's another great example of how a large chunk of iron can be used to make a very nice blade. From start to finish, there's no fancy filing or grinding..... and there's no london-pattern anvil.

[video=youtube;s_cGr_BD3kk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_cGr_BD3kk[/video]

Here's a thread about making your own post anvil. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/610835-Anvil-Building-Project/page2

A lot depends on what you have in your area, but don't be afraid to look at something that's not a "traditional" anvil. I've seen guys forging wonderful blades, and using a 155 howitzer round as their anvil. It might not be the best alloy, but they're earning a living with it!

As for pricing on london-pattern anvils, I look at it very simply. Yes, the wallet can get hurt a bit, but it's an investment that will last a lifetime. I've never seen an anvil depreciate unless it's been abused, so whatever you pay for it today.... you can probably get back in five years if you decide to sell it.

If new anvils are going for $5-8 per pound, plus shipping, don't fret buying an older anvil for $2.50 a pound. Sure, everyone wants that gem of a deal, but it doesn't hurt to also be realistic.

How do you judge the value of an anvil? If it's a big-name maker (Trenton, Wright, Fisher, Kohlswa, etc), you can generally trust the quality of the build and need only look for obvious signs of damage. The closer it is to "as-new" condition, the closer you can match it's value to the cost of a brand-new anvil.

Chipped corners, chewed up horns, sway in the face plate.... all these things reduce the price. The seller might want $4/lb, but that's their problem.

Size? Depends entirely on your desires and what's available in your price range. 120# is just about perfect for everything you could possibly want to forge, but 60# is just as nice for working small stock like blades and is a whole lot easier to move. Big or small, the key is fastening it firmly to the earth.

Enjoy the hunt.
 
To All:

Thanks very much for the great feedback!!!

Best regards,

TK
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top