Any ACL repair opinions?

Bruce Bump

Bruce Bump

Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Messages
9,910
Well I did it good. I fell off my ladder while fixing up the house and tore my Anterior Cruciate Legament (ACL) in the right knee. Im off for 8 weeks.

Has anybody here torn theirs and what was the back to work time? Also some say they dont need repair and I can get along without the surgery. Any opinions?

Dang just when things are going good is when all hell breaks loose.
 
Bruce, Sorry to hear about you misfortune. I wish you a speedy recovery. What you have hurt is something I have yet to hurt so I won't be able to give you any advice. Just do what the doctors tell you to do and things will heal up faster. Thats just the oppisite for me. One month after open heart surgery I found myself in the shop forging and I know it didn't do me any good. At your age 8 weeks should go by pretty quick. Just bite the bullet and watch the soap's. You'll be rairing to go after that.....
 
Sorry to hear of that, Bruce.

I have fake hips and need new knees, but it's not the same problem as you. The only advice I could give is to number one follow Ray's advice and don't push it. It has to be allowed all the time it needs to heal, or you'll suffer for it. it is a balancing act between not overworking and yet working it enough to make it heal well. Number two, seek several orthopaedists' opinions and ask directly the question of whether, given your specific lifestyle, it has to be fixed. Surgeons make their money cutting, and there are those who feel it absolutely necessary to try and fix everything wrong with us, as if we were going to play pro football this weekend.

That said, once a tear starts it becomes much easier to tear it more. Ligaments help hold bones together. As long as it remains unrepaired, you will have to modify your lifestyle to accomodate it.

Good luck.
 
Bruce
my sister tore one of those off in her nee but I'm not sure
if it was the same one/s?
I think one of the ones she tore off was one of four in there.
two around the front and two around the back of the nee
she opt not to operate and exercise her legs to compensate
for the lost of it's function. she's doing great..she'll
out walk and climb, my butt..hope you well soon..
 
Bruce,
A lot will depend on whether you've completely severed the ligament. Even then, surgery isn't always necessary, but without an ACL, your knee will be less stable and that can predispose you to further injury.

My recommendation would be to see an orthopedist -- preferably one that specializes in sports medicine -- and get advice from an expert.
 
Bruce, I think Dave has given the best advice yet. As a rule, I avoid doctors like the plague (Pun intended)...but....

when it comes to knees, you need very good advice. This is hard to get from a doctor. I have broken my left knee 5 times. The last time it was in two places. Because of this my right knee is going and I have pins in my right ankle to boot.

Don't fool around with your knees. Everything else you can push to get back in shape but the knees different.

See a good sports doctor.
 
BRUCE,
sorry to hear about your injury. As it happens, although I am only an amateur knifemaker and collector, I am an orthopedic surgeon who does alot of sports medicine, including ACL reconstructions

In general, whether or not to have your ACL reconstructed depends on a few main areas. 1) Age 2) Activity ( ie are you a skier, soccer player, basketball guy) 3) any other associated injuries (ie other ligaments, meniscus(cartilege) injuries etc 4) Is the tear complete?

I assume you have probably had an MRI, and I agree with the other posters who have recommended you see an orthopedist who does sports medicine - if you have a University near you with an athletic program they will certainly have an orthopedist they use. If you have any specific questions I will be happy to answer them - either post or "private message" me your Email and I'll get back to you.
 
I believe this is the injury a friend I used to work with had. He finally had it fixed, but skied, mountain biked, on it for years with a medical brace. This with the doctor's blessing. One of those odd knee injuries that can be kept tight in some cases with a high quality brace. There's some great knee repair/injury sites on line, give it the old google search.
 
Thanks guys for the good wishes. Yes I had an MRI done and saw the pictures. The ACL is torn in half about right in the middle. Reconstruction will include a new (probally man made fibre) one installed. I have found good info on-line. I value the advice I get here. You guys come from all walks of life and knife makers as a rule are level headed except for IG maybe.

Billf, Thanks for the offer, I will find out more on monday. At least the initial swelling is going down and I can hobble around on one crutch already with less pains.

Sincerly, Bruce
 
Bruce, it may sound crazy and hocus pocusey but it has worked for me. I tore my ham string a few years back and several other tendons and muscles and such over the years and everytime Acupuncture has worked for me for the last 12 years or so. It all depends on how good the Acupuncturist is though. When I tore the ham string it snapped and came off. When I hobbled home in extreme agony, you could see the muscle just hanging there and swinging disconnected !!1 Anyway, there are all types of linaments and then Acupuncture treatments. If you know of a chinses herb shop or acupuncture clinic, go in and see if you can get some "Tendon lotion", that will do part of the trick. You have to wash your hands immediately after using as it would be bad if you touched food or your eyes. You rub that in for a while, everyday with light massaging. Later when you start noticing a difference, switch to "Dit Da Jow" soak a few cotton balls really well and then wrap the soaked cotton balls with an ace bandage around the injured area. That will also help a great deal. It won't cure it entirely but it will make getting around a little easier every day. As well, take a lot of "MSM" (methylsulfonylmethane) and Glucosamine & Chondrointin, these all help to fascilitate tissue regeneration. You can get these in any vitamin store, Vitamin Shoppe, GNC, or certain drug stores and super markets. Don't follow the insructions on the bottles though. Take more than the suggested dosage as you are injured and not merely supplimenting. Arnica is also helpful for these types of inuries. It comes in capsule form as well in most vitamin stores. On top of all that the Amino acid L-Arginine will also help in tissue repair and vascularity. You can get that in vitamin stores and the like as well. Lastly, after all that and especially after your surgery, try something called "Body Mend" it's a tincture that you take sublingually. It contains some herbs and such that fascilitate healing in any part of the body that is injured. However, you cannot let your tongue or mouth touch the eye dropper or bottle it comes in. You cannot let your hands touch the glass dropper part or lip of the bottle either, that would contaminate it ad ruin it's effects. Stay away from mints of any kind and don not use anything with chamomile when using the "Body Mend". These don't all need to be done at once but any of them and any combination will help in the repair of the ACL. If you want more specific info, gimme a hollar and I will map it out for ya. I recently hyper extended (so to speak- micro trauma) my ACL in my right knee and today was the first day in two months that I could work my legs out on the machines at the GYM. My leg has felt better for weeks but I have been scared to lift anything with them after that. It hurt for a few days and then I went to my Acupuncturist (Friggin miracle worker !), he put a dozen or so needles in me and gave me a few linaments. I was feeling no pain almost immediately after the proceedure. Good luck, take it slow and take care !....RDT
 
i have had two major spine operations and live in level 7 cronic pain so i have some personal back round to draw on. just not knees yet!:D my 2 cents bruce is don't rush into anying cutting! the brace and wrapping sound like good starts. give you body a few months to heal it self. being in pain made me make a rash desision to have a fusion done and in hind sight i should have waited to see if just the disc removal would have got me to a bearable state. not after any sympothey, just want to remind you that less can be more. once they operate theres no going back!best wishes Laurence
 
Bruce: I hope everything works out well. Can you still do some hand sanding on blades??? If you do not have any to do, I'll send you out a dozen or so just to keep you occupied and take your mind off your problems.
You guys come from all walks of life and knife makers as a rule are level headed except for IG maybe.
Click to expand...
Boy, are trying to hurt my feelings.:( :( Nah!! I taint got any.:D :D
 
Gee...this sounds like a feeble bunch. I thought I was the only one who had a misspent youth!:D
 
Bruce, On the lighter side. Now that your a Master Bladesmith an artificial knee should't be too difficult to make. I hear there's big money in fake limbs. I know where you can get some Ti.... Really wish you the best. I did have cartilege removed from both knees before they started doing things with the little X. That was major surgery 25 years ago. Things change so quickly anymore. Less than 100 years ago if someone did what you did you'd end up being crippled the rest of your life. Just check things out real good before you stumble.... Ray
 
My partners wife is a surgical orthopedic nurse and brings me great things. SS hip sockets make great guards, she has given me a whole box of SS balls about the size of golf balls and a threaded hole in the end. I’m afraid to ask what they are for but they make great dagger butt caps. I have a set of micro drill bits and 4 or 5 drills like the dentist uses and an air powered saw….
Hundreds of pieces of ss wire and long rods 3/32 and a threaded self-tapping point on the end.

Just think of the good stuff you can get if you get the operation and make friends with the nurse!
 
The knee feels better today although it pops and cracks sometimes. At least the swelling is down and I can get around again.

Good advice here, even from IG, (not trying to hurt feelings) Just send them blades here Ill fix em up good and send em back. Just dont complain when you see them.

RTD, Ive heard good things about accupuncture and alternatives from surgery. My son would give me about the same advice as you. Just my luck to put my toungue on the eye dropper and cantaminate all the dishes with Tendon lotion. When you ripped the ham string loose did they reattach it surgicly? Ligaments dont grow back together from what they tell me.

I think Im going to stay away from the surgery and let it calm down. Maybe I can walk normal. If not surgery is always there.
 
Bruce,
It was hanging by a thread basically. I'd walk and you could actually see it flop around in and out of place ! It was sick looking, bruised and swolen too. I had to use a cane for weeks and weeks. However, I stayed away from surgery, I don't recommend that as an ACL is tough stuff to deal without. From what I know from other fellas who've had that replacement surgery, it will still throb and hurt from time to time and you may always have some difficulty. I know another guy who had his removed after he tore it and he has never goten the surgery. He's as strong as an Ox, he also suffers from time to some with serious arthritic like symptoms. No matter what, it seems as though there will be complications. Give it a little time before making your mind up completely. Surgery may be helpful though, if you trust your doctor and know him well, his advice might be the best. With my ham string, though the acupunture saved it for sure, I too will ocassionally get a really tight hamstring. It doesn't hurt but I have to stretch it often to keep it loose. If I sprint or bend at the knee often I will feel it tighten up and have to stop and stretch it out. All your body's parts know where they should be (muscle memory) so they will gravitate toward where they should be when disclocated or torn. However, that doesn't always work out as the amount of tearing is a factor and the part ofthe body that is injured like in your case an area where you would be walking and moving and bending and stepping all the time keeping the ligament from going where it needs to. The Acupuncture helps facilitate growth and so do the herbs. It may or may not cure it but it will help ease the discomfort greatly. There's no guarantee in either Western or Eastern medicine but if you follow the instructions given to you by the acupuncturist to the letter, you will notice serious progress in recovery. What will also happen with a torn mucle or ligament often is scarring. The effected area will scar underneath the skin and the scar tissue can attach itself sometimes to other tissue it should not be attached to. That will give you some arthritic like discomfort over the years. That's where massage comes in. You massage the area (after it's healed some), to break up the scar tissue and keep it from or dislodge it from the surrounding tissues. That will also help blood flow through it carrying all the healing properties your body already has. Here's what worked for me and what I would recommend as a layman before surgery and then get an MRI and see how it has progressed:
1. Acupuncture treatment, most important !
2. at the same time-Tendon lotion atleast once a day (wash those hands afterwards !)for at least a week. This stuff goes straight to the ligament only.
3. Then, after you have felt a little progress - "Dit Da Jow" massaged in very well and with soaked cotton balls wrapped up in an ace bandage (not too tight but not loose). Do it before you sleep and leave the bandage on. You don't have to wash your hands with this stuff, it's reallty good for ya. It will help break up any residual bruising and scarring and facilitate blood flow to the ACL bringing your bloods healing properties with it. Do this as long as you have to, whether a week or a year, it will benefit you either way. This stuff will go straight to the bone ! making it all a little stronger.

Next, if you use Body Mend, you can no longer use the linaments like the Tendon Lotion or the Dit Da Jow. The linaments will neutralize the effects of the Body Mend and you will just waste your Money.

4. After you have had sufficient progress, try the "Body Mend" tincuture. Don't touch the bottle lip or the dropper at all. Just hang the dropper in the air over your open mouth and put about 20 drops under your tongue and let them absorb. Don't eat any chamomlie or mint what so ever when using Body Mend. Brush your teeth with baking soda, not tooth paste. This will help your whole body"mend" so to speak as yopur body will be effected by the trauma in your ACL.
5. From the beginning all the way through the end. Take the "MSM", L-Arginine, Glucosamine, Chondroitin. These are all vitamins and amino acids that will work at repairing tissue. Take a little more than the recommended dose. I have head that SHark Cartilage may help as well ? Ask a Physician or Vitamin specialist.
After I worked out my legs yesterday at the GYM, I was expecting to be hurting in my ACL but today I feel great and my legs fell strong. I hurt my ACl like 2 months ago while doing leg presses. I stresses it out and then when I saw the train coming later that evening as I was going out, I ran as fast as I could to catch it. POP! goes my ACL and though I didn't tear it completely, I suffered some "micro trauma". It was painful to walk at all and climbing stairs was a no, no. No I'm fine, I am more careful though. So, if I suffered that much pain with just the micro damage, I can only imagine what it's like to tear the acl completely. I feel for ya. Good luck with that, take it slow and easy. The Tendon Lotion will run around $10. a bottle, so will the Dit Da Jow. The Body Mend will cost about $15. a bottle. Good luck buddy.....RDT
 
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