Any advantage of Forged vs stock removal?

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PatrickKnight

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Jan 24, 2012
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I am planning on having a custom knife made sometime this year and was wondering if forging a blade has any advantages over stock removal. If so what are they?
 
I have heard that forging can have benefits in recurves and blades with large sweeping blades as the "grain" of the steel follows with the curve after forging, but I can't confirm this personally.
 
conserves steel, able to make blades out of steel that is not available as barstock.
 
With modern metallurgy, there is not really an advantage to forging steel, other than the ability to express your self in the steel.

It saves steel. You don't have to remove as much, and can forge very close to shape. There is basically nothing that you can forge that you could not accomplish with stock removal (within reason).


Forging is pretty darned cool, and I seem to be gravitating toward forged knives as my favorite recently. It does not make them any better or worse.

I would suggest, that in fact, with how good modern steels are from the manufacturer, that forging no longer really imparts any extra strength or consistency to the steel. Folding steel again and again is no longer necessary to get pure steel, or remove voids.

With forged blades, there is another opportunity for the forger to ruin the steel, or make it weaker by overheating, etc.

It all comes down to geometry and proper heat treat for the steel.

A forger can ruin any steel. A stock removal maker can ruin any steel.

Either can make a great knife out of even basic steel, with good geometry and heat threat.
 
Bigfattyt said:
I would suggest, that in fact, with how good modern steels are from the manufacturer, that forging no longer really imparts any extra strength or consistency to the steel.
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And you would be correct.

The only tangible advantage that stock-removal has over forging is that a much wider variety of steels can be employed. Mainly because the high-alloy tool and stainless steels are difficult to forge.

Select the steel you want based on its properties, and the maker you want based on their skill and reputation. :thumbup:
 
^ and the fact that high end powder steels have much more consistent structure and composition, apparently in forging carbon can be burned out of the steel.
 
Basically it seems like if you need a competition cutter and a really fine edge that'll be near perfect in consistency, go stock removal. If you want a more personal blade to where you know the maker took the time to pound out the steel themselves, go forged. :)
 
elof_alv said:
^ and the fact that high end powder steels have much more consistent structure and composition, apparently in forging carbon can be burned out of the steel.
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Well, you can ruin powder steels with poor HT, too. There are many bladesmiths who know exactly what they're doing, and how to get the best performance out their steel.

VolundoftheForge said:
If you want a more personal blade to where you know the maker took the time to pound out the steel themselves, go forged. :)
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I know quite a few custom stock-removal makers (and the clients who support them) who would take offense at the implied notion that they don't put an awful lot of time and skill into their blades, or that they're "impersonal".
 
The HUGE advantage of forging vs. stock removal is largely the manufacturing of complex 3D shapes from the steel. With most knives this isn't necessary, but for things like scythe blades it's a totally different kettle of fish. A stock removal blade would require a block about an inch thick and most of it would be removed just to attain the desired shape. The size and shape of most knives makes stock removal a very viable option.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
The HUGE advantage of forging vs. stock removal is largely the manufacturing of complex 3D shapes from the steel. With most knives this isn't necessary, but for things like scythe blades it's a totally different kettle of fish. A stock removal blade would require a block about an inch thick and most of it would be removed just to attain the desired shape. The size and shape of most knives makes stock removal a very viable option.
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Here we have a well thought out answer.

Sort of like the Greek vs Roman method of shipbuilding. The Greeks would cut down a tree and carve on plank out of it to fit. One tree = one plank. The Romans cut down one tree, sawed it up into flat planks and bent them onto an already constructed frame. One tree = many planks.

A khukuri would be the same thing. You'd need a piece of sock about 5 inches wide and then have to cut 2/3 by weight away to make that shape.
 
james terrio said:
I know quite a few custom stock-removal makers (and the clients who support them) who would take offense at the implied notion that they don't put an awful lot of time and skill into their blades, or that they're "impersonal".
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Sorry if I offended you. I myself at this point rely on stock removal for the knives I'm working on. It probably would've been better to say that forged blades have an "old-world charm" about them.
 
Starting with cast steel is where you need to forge. When the foundries produce an ingot they roll it out so much that the resulting barstock is worked enough to gain almost all of the benefits of a hand forging. So if you're smelting your own ingots it definitely needs to be pounded out a bit.
 
Although that "old world charm" was actually considered sloppy rough-shod work back in the day. A well executed and finished forged blade should be nearly impossible to distinguish from a stock removal blade. However, because of the "charm factor" many are left rough. Nothing wrong with that, but forging in and of itself does not necessarily have a rough look, and skilled forging produces just the opposite.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Although that "old world charm" was actually considered sloppy rough-shod work back in the day. A well executed and finished forged blade should be nearly impossible to distinguish from a stock removal blade. However, because of the "charm factor" many are left rough. Nothing wrong with that, but forging in and of itself does not necessarily have a rough look, and skilled forging produces just the opposite.
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Good point. I have a blade coming in tomorrow that was forged W2 and you can't even tell it was forged. I had to ask the maker again because it's very well polished. :)
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Although that "old world charm" was actually considered sloppy rough-shod work back in the day.
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Ironic, isn't it? In a couple short decades we've suddenly gone from the vast majority of bladesmiths doing their utmost to make hand-forged blades as clean and crisp as possible (as has been done for centuries) to some stock-removal guys purposely putting hammer-marks on their blades and/or subjecting them to all manner of chemical treatments to give them a "forge finish" or scaly look. :confused:

Then again, you can also pay someone several hundred dollars - if not thousands - extra to take a brand new guitar and beat the snot out of it to make it seem "vintage" *shrug*
 
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Well the maker I will be using does his forged blades out of 1084 and his stock removal from 1095, O1, or 5160 so I think I will go with removal because unless I am completely wrong 1095, O1, and 5160 are better steels than 1084.
 
PatrickKnight said:
Well the maker I will be using does his forged blades out of 1084 and his stock removal from 1095, O1, or 5160 so I think I will go with removal because unless I am completely wrong 1095, O1, and 5160 are better steels than 1084.
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I would prefer O1 in a small blade and 5160 in a big blade over 1084 but in all reality I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between any of them. I say get the forged blade if you like the idea of it being forged. Otherwise just go with the better steel.
 
There is also die-forging. I believe the old Marble's blades were forged in a die (though not currently), and Roselli die-forges his blades, as least the 'ordinary' high carbon ones (Krupp W9, I think). Maybe someone with deeper knowledge of this technique could comment.
 
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