Any Californians Out There????

Tolly

Tolly

Joined
Jan 1, 2006
Messages
555
If any of you here live in California and could help me out by answering a question for me I would very much appreciate it. Here is my situation. My son who turns 20 Monday moved to San Diego last summer to go to College. He is here on a ten day vacation and I am giving him a bunch of fishing gear to take back with him as he has been getting more and more into fishing since moving. Among this fishing gear are two fillet knives(one 6",one 9"). Now I know California has some strict laws on weapons and what not, so my question is, is it okay for him to carry these knives with him in his tackle box to and from wherever he is fishing, and or while he is out on the lake or pier fishing? I don't want him to get into any trouble, and God knows it is costing me enough for him to live out there and go to school so I sure as heck can't be spending a fortune on legal fees. Also I was going to give something like a BM Mini Skirmish or something for his birthday to carry clipped in his pocket as an EDC but I don't know if that is okay out there either. If you guys could help me out I would very much appreciate it, I just can't seem to find anything online. I'm sure the iformation is out there and easy to find but I am a computer idiot......I'm too old I guess.. Thanks guys.
 
Tolly said:
If any of you here live in California and could help me out by answering a question for me I would very much appreciate it. Here is my situation. My son who turns 20 Monday moved to San Diego last summer to go to College. He is here on a ten day vacation and I am giving him a bunch of fishing gear to take back with him as he has been getting more and more into fishing since moving. Among this fishing gear are two fillet knives(one 6",one 9"). Now I know California has some strict laws on weapons and what not,...
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In general, California has better knife laws than Texas. He can carry just about any fixed blade as long as it is not concealed. He should be fine carrying filet knives in a tacklebox.
 
I lived in California all my life, I just moved to Texas last month. As for carrying a fishing knife in a tackle box he should have no problem, just make sure that he has a fishing license with him as fish and game will check you from time to time. As for carrying the BM I dont see a problem wiith that either.
 
There are a couple things to consider in this question...

There are California STATE laws, and then there are stricter laws such as city/county ordinances.

The last time I checked with the DOJ (I do so every other year), there was no state restriction on carrying a fixed blade exposed (you will run into trouble in certain cities/counties, though). If you carry a fixed blade concealed, however, it magically becomes a "dirk/dagger" which is a felony anywhere in the state.
There is no relevant state restriction on carrying folding knives, folded in the pocket exposed or unexposed--any size. (There is no doubt this varies by city/county though so take care). Again, if the folding knife is concealed and in the open position, it magically becomes a "dirk/dagger" and that's a felony anywhere in the state.
Your son should be fine just about everywhere with the fishing knives stored/transported with his fishing gear, at least as a practical matter. I go to the pier from time to time and you see all sorts of whacky fishing-related knife scenarios out there with the LEOs looking on. If they think he's up to no good, it won't matter how he's carrying it, there will be trouble.
 
I've never had a problem with that, I think he'll be fine as long as he has a fishing license etc... You may want throw in a ceramic honing stick for good measure. There are some good places down there to fish, have him try Lake Cuyamaca to the east, near Julian.
 
He should be fine using what you described, carrying the filet knives with the fishing gear in a box or case.

What school in he attending?
 
I have just one thing to add: a "concealed dirk or dagger" CAN be a felony, when concealed ON the PERSON. The statute in question actually makes it a "wobbler", so at the DA's discretion it can be charged as either a misdemeanor or felony. If carried OFF the person, ie a tacklebox in the hand, between the seats in your car, etc, then there is no restriction at all (except on school grounds, courthouses, etc.).

So, any pocketknife is fine; any fixed blade is fine, as long as it's carried openly on the person, or carried in any manner OFF the person.

-John
 
moving-van.jpg
 
technically illegal.

626.10 pc prohibits knives with blades longer than 2 inches on any school campus, colleges and universities included.

both the filet knife and, in particular the bm, are in violation.

i imagine if it is left in a tackle box, and only carried to and from fishing, or used in the kitchen, there should be no problem.

the only exemption provided is for employees who use a knife in the course of their employment.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
technically illegal.

626.10 pc prohibits knives with blades longer than 2 inches on any school campus, colleges and universities included.

both the filet knife and, in particular the bm, are in violation.

i imagine if it is left in a tackle box, and only carried to and from fishing, or used in the kitchen, there should be no problem.

the only exemption provided is for employees who use a knife in the course of their employment.
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Hey Mark, I'm always interested in your input on this issue since I know you're a LEO in California.

The penal code section you cite -- is that a County code or state code? My understanding was always that state law permitted open carry of fixed blades, and concealed carry of folders. I live in LA county, and my understanding was that the county code forbids any fixed blade carry except as appropriate for employment or engaging in a specific legal activity, open carry of folders, and concealed carry of folders with blades over 3". In other words concealed carry of folders with blades under 3" is okay.
 
longbeachguy said:
Hey Mark, I'm always interested in your input on this issue since I know you're a LEO in California.

The penal code section you cite -- is that a County code or state code? My understanding was always that state law permitted open carry of fixed blades, and concealed carry of folders. I live in LA county, and my understanding was that the county code forbids any fixed blade carry except as appropriate for employment or engaging in a specific legal activity, open carry of folders, and concealed carry of folders with blades over 3". In other words concealed carry of folders with blades under 3" is okay.
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that section is the state penal code.

in general, the state allows for carry of fixed blades openly, and folders concealed. however this section specifically addresses school sites and prohibits carry within the properties. it is a felony.

the skirmish is more likely to get someone into trouble than the filet knife.

im not sure about the county codes, though i know within la city it is illegal to carry a fixed blade any time. within a car, concealed or not, is fine. in a backpack or tackle box being carried by an individual is arguable.
 
Thanks guys. He does not live on campus by the way so that shouldn't be an issue.
 
Well please let us know what you get him! I think you've probably come to this conclusion already, but IMHO the BM Mini Skirmish should not be a problem, legally, in San Diego. Incidentally I have one, and it's about the best EDC I can imagine.
 
CA Penal Code 626.10 (b):
(b) Any person, except a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in this state, a person summoned by any officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while the person is actually engaged in assisting any officer, or a member of the military forces of this state or the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick, or knife having a fixed blade longer than 2 1/2 inches upon the grounds of, or within, any private university, the University of California, the California State University, or the California Community Colleges is guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison.
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from leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html (emphasis mine)

So on universities, there is no length limit on folders, and fixed blades are limited to 2.5".
(see 626.10 (a) for K-12 schools)

And if you really want to have some legal fun, try to figure out whether a 2" fixed blade knife is prohibited by this section (since it would fit PC 12020 (c)24's definition of "dirk or dagger".
 
medusaoblongata said:
from leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html (emphasis mine)

So on universities, there is no length limit on folders, and fixed blades are limited to 2.5".
(see 626.10 (a) for K-12 schools)

And if you really want to have some legal fun, try to figure out whether a 2" fixed blade knife is prohibited by this section (since it would fit PC 12020 (c)24's definition of "dirk or dagger".
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interesting point you bring up.

i have always interpreted the dirk/dagger definition to be dependent on method of carry.

in order to be in violation, the knife must be concealed, whether in a pocket or covered by clothing.

also interesting that 12020 makes no mention of blade length.

when presented with a situation regarding carry of a knife, on say school grounds (which i encounter often), i prefer to use 626.10 for a felony booking, or the lamc code for misdemeanor cite/booking.

please note, the decision to arrest, at least for me, for a knife violation is inherently dependent on circumstances surrounding the discovery of a knife.
 
Moriomotom;

I was reading 626.10 (a) PC, and see that included in the list of prohibited knives is "folding knife with a blade that locks into place". Is there case law or guidance about the length of the blade on a lockblade? Or, as it sounds, any lockblade violates the statute?

I know that attitude is everything in cases like this. I figure if you're booking people on this charge, you'll have a lot more insight on this.

Thanks!

-John
 
As I read a little deeper into the statute, I see that medusaoblongata's question is answered in 626.10 (h) PC, which states:

(h) As used in this section, "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or
other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready
use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or
death.

This would appear to bring the statute in line with 12020's de facto definition of "concealed dirk or dagger", except that the knife in question does not have to be concealed. It has to be capable of "ready use".

It is interesting to note that in all of the subsections that allow school food prep workers, custodians, etc to carry knives on campus only deal with the fixed bladed knife, ice pick, and razor with unguarded blade; they do not address the issue of lock bladed knives. An oversight, I guess.

-John
 
Jaundice said:
Moriomotom;

I was reading 626.10 (a) PC, and see that included in the list of prohibited knives is "folding knife with a blade that locks into place". Is there case law or guidance about the length of the blade on a lockblade? Or, as it sounds, any lockblade violates the statute?

I know that attitude is everything in cases like this. I figure if you're booking people on this charge, you'll have a lot more insight on this.

Thanks!

-John
Click to expand...

per the letter of the law, any locking blade folder is in violation.
 
Jaundice said:
As I read a little deeper into the statute, I see that medusaoblongata's question is answered in 626.10 (h) PC, which states:

(h) As used in this section, "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or
other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready
use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or
death.

This would appear to bring the statute in line with 12020's de facto definition of "concealed dirk or dagger", except that the knife in question does not have to be concealed. It has to be capable of "ready use".

It is interesting to note that in all of the subsections that allow school food prep workers, custodians, etc to carry knives on campus only deal with the fixed bladed knife, ice pick, and razor with unguarded blade; they do not address the issue of lock bladed knives. An oversight, I guess.


-John
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the definitions provided in each section are identical.

"ready use as a stabbing weapon" would generally mean on the person, ie, a pocket, sheath, pouch, etc. it would be difficult to apply in a case where a person was carrying a knife in a backpack or other manner.

as for the employees in the course of their duties, for k-12, there is no distinction between fixed/folder.

that only applies to colleges and universities, as there does not seem to be any restriction on folders, contrary to how i had read the law previously.
 
Morimotom;

I guess the distinction I'm seeing is that 12020 prohibits a concealed dirk or dagger, whereas 626 prohibits ANY dirk or dagger, concealed or not, (and fixed blade over 2.5 inches, etc).

Thank you for your service and taking the time to shed some light on this.

-John
 
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