Any chance of a Spyderco Megafolder?

Jim March

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 7, 1998
Messages
3,018
If the Gunting pics are any indication, Sal's got hisself a new lockwork. Dare I ask whether or not it can support a 5.5" or above blade length?

I'd also suggest a "Gunting-like" grip - Bram and the Spyderco collaborators did an excellent job there, and you'd get a kind of "family resemblance".

Sal? Heellllooooooooo?
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Jim
 
mayhap the Military version of the GUNTING will meet your big blade needs! Whats..5.5 to a few friends in the military..LOL!L..got to wait till the GUNTING does its thing first... then variations can arise!
The lock just keeps getting stronger..
REALLY! no problemo on a bigger blade...
The big blade would be in my opinion RESTRICTED to certain groups like active military due to my anal retentive view of blade length...under 3 inches for the common guy...
oh well..
I can be over-ruled on any of this by the big guy himself..so don't take me as the gospel..
 
Bram, California gun laws are insane, nay, downright EVIL yet our knife laws specifically declare megafolders legal.

Withholding a 5.5" Gunting from the California market would be...well, "cruel and unusual" is a starting point
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.

Jim

(Re: the evil gun laws...I'm not kidding here. Want proof? http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/cccr.pdf )
 
Well, I owe Bram and Sal an apology for my earlier comments on the aesthetic appeal of the Gunting. Now, however, I have to confess that it tends to grow on one and the design, of course is quite practical. Having said all that, I must say that I would consider a Gunting megafolder a must buy. Of course, I'll probably get the small one too.
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Naturally, this hypothetical MegaSpydie has to have a blade shape that the sisterhood ladies in my congregation can use to zip through the bottom crust of a challah egg bread, like the CS Vaquero Grande they now know and love (now if I could just teach them how to close it!)
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
James, perhaps you could put together an instructional video on defensive blade techniques for use against breads and pastries.
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"A Taste for Steel"?
 
BRAM,

A bigger blade "RESTRICTED to active military"?
Dude, it's not the tool, it's how it's used! Individual freedoms and responsibilities, remember?
BTW, how do you see the private ownership of firearms? I mean, they can be misused, right? Maybe we ought to restrict them to police and military as well...
I must confess I'm pretty disapointed in you, FWIW...

Regards,

Leo Daher



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"Though the meek shall inherit the Earth, they won't keep it past Saturday night..."
 
Ahh Leo..I have some dumb retraints legally in this place and in my attitude. I bend them as I see I can. I NEVER envisioned a civilian large blade...I'm the three inch or less nut..California, which I will never uderstand...nice place to visit and then go home!LOL....allows mega folders..well NOBODY else really does..thats a small market..
The rest of the civilized world that I travel in, no matter what crap people tell me is supposedly allowed in their country, WHEN I get there and deal with customs, police and authorities who can jail me..we all come to the blade length of 8-8.5 centimeters or three inches or less..
THAT'S a really big market..just like here.
I have to deal with the legal side here..I just did the RUSSIA, ISRAEL and EGYPT trip with a bunch of friends & students...Egypt was a real treat as they checked for "weapons"..The bizarre responsibility for supplying a tool that is either legal or not...now if its supposedly restricted to Military and in certain places it can be legally sold to NON military, well then its a thing with its own life...I assume that if ytou already own mega folders, then in reality you'll have no problem getting this....IF,and its a big IF..SPYDERCO thinks its OK to make a MILITARY VERSION of the GUNTING as I envision...OK?????
Personally I agree with you..but its the rock and a hard place...
 
I understand its a tool...just a tool that can do no harm by itself..do not misinterpret reality for personal belief...
I own MANY tools that I cannot carry legally.. I can only fondle them in the safety of my home..Luckily I live in Florida and I can carry my firearm ANYWHERE it is allowed..concealed..as it should be,
I don't believe in restrictions BUT contrary to what you mught believe there are already laws in existence that make certain enterprises not worth it....It took big Balls for SPYDERCO to go with me and my designs.. I am proud that they stand behind me..I am the start of a Military-Martial Art-Law Enforcement line...in todays world thats bold for a knife company..SPYDERCO is further pushing the envelope with my video...They are truly working within the attitudes and existing laws! The mega folder issue is a small one that I will work around with EVEYONE'S help...
 
A Taste for Steel LOL!
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There should be no more legal considerations about manufacturing and selling a six inch folder than there are about manufacturing and selling a six inch fixed blade. Whether you want a six inch blade at the end of a seven inch handle is another matter. The little old ladies at temple like the long handle on the CS-VG bread knife.
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There are some jurisdictions out there where three inches or some such measure is a legal limit for some or all knives carried concealed or carried in town, but there are very few places where large knives may not be possessed or sold. You may own or sell a nine-inch chef's knife just about anywhere, and you may own or sell a nine-inch "Bowie" knife in most places too. If you carry either of them concealed on your person downtown and come to the attention of law enforcement, you'll be in some legal difficulty in most jurisdictions, and many of those same jurisdictions will give you some grief over a megafolder concealed on your person.

California may be peculiar in that a CS Vaquero Grande in my pocket is lawful, but a 2.5" "bird & trout" fixed blade in my pocket would be a "concealed dirk or dagger," but in most places the conventional wisdom is that a large working knife is much more politically correct than a small edged weapon.

The very popular and widely sold Buck 110 is just under four inches, and four inches or 10cm is the usual definition of a "full size" folder, and anything much larger would be too long for most mundane pocket knife duty.

As far as political correctness is concerned, I'd be more concerned about a Gunting in my pocket than an Endura or a Military. Ironically, that is because the very non-lethal features of the knife, for use in the closed position to make the wicked repent of their evil ways and live. It's optimized as a weapon and carried "for protection."

My Military, on the other hand, is optimized for heavy duty cutting chores on inanimate objects. The Vaquero Grande is obviously for yard work or baked goods emergencies. If my Delica, which is the ideal length for slicing bagels, is needed as a weapon, God forbid, it only works by drawing blood. What's the logic of political correctness and incorrectness in knives? There is no logic in it.
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But the bottom line on megafolder legality is that it should not be any more a "military/LEO only" product than a six inch hunting/camping/survival knife is "military/LEO only." Anybody who can lawfully buy a "Kabar" should be able to buy a megafolder.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
As for "small market", California is ONE NINTH of the total US population.

The weirdness of the laws here was caused by gross misconduct on the part of law enforcement. Seriously. The Mariner case was just the straw that broke Sacramento's back.

What's interesting is that with such liberal knife laws, there hasn't been an increase in stabbings or similar.

Jim
 
BRAM,

I understand where you're coming from, believe me - I just have a problem with the idea of a company restricting a certain product to military/LEO, when even the existing laws won't call for that. IMHO, that amounts to catering to the enemies of freedom - those who are actively trying to abolish our right to self protection, be it with blades or firearms.
I've read other posts in which you unequivocally defended personal freedoms and condemned all that politically correctness crap, and that's why I said I was disapointed. Now, I believe I understand you better.
And you're right about Florida, of course - I had the privilege of residing there for close to 5 years, and I can't wait to go back. Can't think of a better place to live...
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Regards,

Leo Daher

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"Though the meek shall inherit the Earth, they won't keep it past Saturday night..."
 
contrary to what you think Jim..The GUNTING is about as legal as it comes..it makes a dandy fillet -fishing knife and it certainly skins very well..( we skinned a buck with it just to see what would happen with all that blood n stuff!)as for working with that fine ergonomic handle insures that I don't slip and slice off my own fingers,, and by NAME alone is not as nasty as that DAMN MILITARY..
BAD IMAGE?? wrong perspective since I certainly don't need to cut with it and its a dandy little hammer and a bottle opener...LOL!
It opens tabs on soda cans as well saving ones finger nails....
I'm sure it can do most everyday cutting chores SAFER than most other knives..it stays glued to ones hands....
and California may be the ONLY place that allows big folders and yes its a small enterprise compared to the rest of the world as a market..where they sure as hell limit things to 8-8.5 centimeters...or less than three inches.
Its a GLOBAL world out there!!ROFL...
see ya!

 
AH! Now we are achieving synthesis!
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We've already established that the blade is a useful size and shape for mundane peaceful cutting purposes. The horn, besides being a safety guard for OHSA purposes, works for prying, poking, and tapping things more effectively than your fingernails can, without the hazards to both edge and fingers of doing that with a bare blade!

And, if the designer of the knife had close quarters combat in mind, is it not a good deed to put a sword to plowshare duty? Of course, if one also knows how to use the sword as a sword . . . We do live in an imperfect world.

As for the megafolder with the super-strong lockup, that would be intended to do the job of a six-inch fixed blade that one might carry in the wet wild wood, but in a more compact package. Logically, since many a pocket would be hard-put to accomodate that much "pocket knife," the MegaSpydie should come with a sheath (Kydex?) of some sort, for open carry - the lawful way one would normally carry a six inch knife.

Even in California, a concealed CS-VG would probably be worth a trip downtown if a cop found it frisking one of the usual suspects, and it might take at least a few hours or days for the authorities to admit that they guy wasn't breaking any laws. But a mega-folder, openly carried, is no more of a legal or political problem than a non-folding knife with as much blade.

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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001


[This message has been edited by James Mattis (edited 04-05-2000).]
 
Quoting Bram:

"contrary to what you think Jim..The GUNTING is about as legal as it comes.."

Errrr...it sure wasn't me that said the Gunting was illegal. My only possible slight concern is that it could be equated with a Kubaton, and those very rarely get any flak.

And James Mattis is also a strong student of knife law so I don't think he'd imply it had legal problems either.

Just clarifyin'.

Bram, it's this simple: I ain't buyin' a 3" single-edge defense knife
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. Not fixed, not folding, not nuthin'
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. And I don't think I'm alone...

Jim
 
Here's the definition of "Metal Knuckles" from Section 12020 of the California Penal Code (The CA Penal Code is heavy enough that a judge who "throws the book" at a perp should himself be busted for assault with a deadly weapon?
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):

(7) As used in this section, "metal knuckles" means any device or instrument made wholly or partially of metal which is worn for purposes of offense or defense in or on the hand and which either protects the wearer's hand while striking a blow or increases the force of impact from the blow or injury to the individual receiving the blow. The metal contained in the device may help support the hand or fist, provide a shield to protect it, or consist of projections or studs which would contact the individual receiving a blow.

A kubaton doesn't stick out between or around the knuckles, so calling it a "metal knuckles" would be a stretch. Also, it or a knife of any sort are not "worn" on the hand, but carried. That is, if you relax your grip, gravity takes over and it drops (making it a gravity knife?
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) A a classic knuckle duster made from linen micarta would not be a CA violation, of course. At least not until somebody is caught with one in a courtroom and the Legislature meets again. A kubaton with those two "ninja spikes" sticking out sideways might easily become a test case in any jurisdiction if found on one of the "usual suspects" and not on, say, a real estate agent following the advice of her friendly local police department (Albuquerque, NM, in this case - see tips #11 and #14).

Hmmmm . . . Perhaps it might be both good marketing and good politics to pitch the Gunting to realtors and other organized trades and professions where non-combative sorts of people, including a fair number of women, are exposed to some risk of ambush.

The kubaton may be considered "respectable" because cops and respectable ladies discovered it before street punks could make it a "weapon of choice." Otherwise, it could easily be considered a small "billy" - also bad news in many a penal code.

As for the MegaSpydie (or at least a Gunting's full-size sister that extends the blade to fill up the rest of the handle
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?) - that this thread is about, wouldn't a respectable real estate lady have occasion to trim a weed or two to help keep the property presentable?
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"Innocent" uses are are limited only in limited imaginations.
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
THANK YOU EWOK!

Seriously, if a Spydie megafolder ALSO had the Gunting's raised spine for striking/trapping/kinetic-opens, that'd be a plus. And I realize Bram "owns" that valuable concept. But if Bram wants no part of a "MegaGunting", a Spydie competitor to the Sifu and upcoming Camillus BFF1 will be highly welcome.

And with THAT said, remember I still dragged Bram and his designs in because along with it's other features, the Gunting *grip* seems to be a very positive step, better than the Escalator's and better than most folders. I don't know how much of the grip design is Bram and how much is Spydie but it seems to be FMA-derived (controllable with the back three fingers) and that leads me to think it's Bram's baby.

Bram, I don't fault your skills, knowledge, teaching or design ability. But when you talk about what civilians should be "restricted to"...sorry man, S&W is getting boycotted for similar concepts. I'm not calling for one here, but that kind of thinking on a maker's part is a serious matter...anyone who missed it should check the second post in this thread.

Jim
 
Bram's opinion not withstanding, I'm in agreement with Jim March et al's disirability of a MegaGunting, even if it was limited to 5.5" so that it could be carried in California and Texas. A Military sized one would be good but a Sifu sized one would be awesome. A VG sized one would be megafolder nirvana.

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Megafolder Fans Unite!

Mike Melone

"Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. " Psalm 144:1
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." Thomas Jefferson


 
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