Any experience with Marbain steel?

Ragsdale

Ragsdale

Joined
Mar 19, 2016
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I'm looking at starting to make fixed blade knives I have an almost endless supply of Marbain steel, from what I've read from the website it has a high boron content and best results for edge retention running from 49-52 RC. Or should I just buy some 1095 stock and go that route?
 
Marbain is a proprietary heat treatment by Fisher Barton for use in lawn mower blades. It is a heat treatment that produces bainite, which is not a desirable steel structure for knife edges. Go with 1084 if you're a beginner. Easier to HT than 1095. 49-52HRC is OK for a lawn mower blade, by way too low for a knife.
 
samuraistuart said:
49-52HRC is OK for a lawn mower blade, by way too low for a knife.
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Dang, guess Ill have to ditch my MISSION knives then.

Good thing nobody told me this before, as the knives have worked perfectly cutting stuff for many years ;-)
 
IMHO, 5160 is about the most forgiving and best steel for someone starting out.....ask me how I know. ;)
 
BladeScout said:
Dang, guess Ill have to ditch my MISSION knives then.

Good thing nobody told me this before, as the knives have worked perfectly cutting stuff for many years ;-)
Click to expand...

If you're happy with a knife that is 52HRC....great. I would be highly upset if any of my knives were that low. But to each their own. Some people do like the "soft" blades, as they sharpen extremely easily.

Well after doing a search for MISSION knives....looks like they're titanium...not steel. Comparing apples to oranges.
 
I bought a little belt grinderr today a 1x30 from horrible freight I'll see how it does. I will order steel next week, or see if a steel supplier around me has some 1095 hc steel I will be sending my blades off to get heat treated
 
Boron in very small amounts is used to increase hardenability of steels .This will take a lower carbon steel and get the hardness of a higher carbon steel.
 
BladeScout said:
Dang, guess Ill have to ditch my MISSION knives then.

Good thing nobody told me this before, as the knives have worked perfectly cutting stuff for many years ;-)
Click to expand...

Lol. :D Ya Samuraistuart is right, ti alloys act differently than steel at X Rockwell hardness, sort of like cobalt-based alloys (Stellite 6k, Talonite, Boye Dentritic Cobalt).

To the OP:

According to the interwebs, Marbain is just a proprietary austempering heat-treatment applied to regular old steel, AISI 10B38.

Bluebladesteel.com: "This type of alloy steel contains less carbon than the high carbon grades C1050-C1095 which are typically associated with heat treated steel. The introduction of just small amounts of Boron (.0005% to 0.003%) offers a cost-effective way to achieve similar heat-treatable qualities known of high carbon steels, but with smaller cross-sections and increased ductility and durability. These qualities make 10b38 steel the ideal alternative for a wide variety of purposes, including the manufacture of specialty tools, rotary blades for lawn mowers, and edger blades."

It sounds like your steel has already been heat-treated for use as a landscaping tool blade, and is made more for impact toughness than edge-holding. Low-ish carbon steel with a bit of boron to give the heat treatment a kick. If you do grind a knife out of it, be sure to do it wet and cold.

Oh I see Mete is right as usual. :p
 
samuraistuart said:
If you're happy with a knife that is 52HRC....great. I would be highly upset if any of my knives were that low. But to each their own. Some people do like the "soft" blades, as they sharpen extremely easily.

Well after doing a search for MISSION knives....looks like they're titanium...not steel. Comparing apples to oranges.
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Hence the smily.

BTW you DID claim: "Easier to HT than 1095. 49-52HRC is OK for a lawn mower blade, by way too low for a knife."

You didnt claim exclusively too low for STEEL knives :)

The above still tongue in cheek :D



Mecha said:
Lol. :D Ya Samuraistuart is right, ti alloys act differently than steel at X Rockwell hardness, sort of like cobalt-based alloys (Stellite 6k, Talonite, Boye Dentritic Cobalt).
Click to expand...

I sorta, kinda know. See above:)
 
The Stellites have a HRc 50 matrix BUT with many hard precipitates which a lawn mower doesn't have. There was a great deal of interest in the Talonite blades when they came out but owners never seemed to post their experiences !! Wear resistant , easy to sharpen but soft enough to easily roll the edge.
 
mete said:
The Stellites have a HRc 50 matrix BUT with many hard precipitates which a lawn mower doesn't have. There was a great deal of interest in the Talonite blades when they came out but owners never seemed to post their experiences !! Wear resistant , easy to sharpen but soft enough to easily roll the edge.
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No, never did hear many reports. Too bad.

Seems prices got driven up and the knives put in collections, as some users thought them too expensive to use.

The sad and too early demise of one of the foremost knife makers in the field might also have been a factor.
 
If you have unlimited, and free, access then make fittings out of it!

You could make 3 blades from the steel you have, and 3 from 1084 or Aldo's 1075, and then compare them in rigorous testing. You may end up with something you like, especially if you plan to make machetes.

Personally, I would use the free steel for fittings and work on learning to heat treat. First with 1084 or Aldo's 1075 (I choose the latter because I can also use it as a mix with W2 to get blades with subtle grain patterns and outstanding hamons). And, I get good contrast between 1075 and 15n20 when I do pattern welding for European sword cores (W2 and 15N20 for the sword edges or W2 and 1075 for the edges).

My point is that going with a simple steel just at, or below, eutectoid, is the best place to begin with knife and sword making. In some cases, these steels are still optimal, or are part of an optimal combination, especially if you do not have salt baths for heat treatment.

May as well begin from the beginning with learning to heat treat and obtain maximal ability from simple steels. I hope I sounded like Yogi Berra...

Most important of all, have fun. Don't take this stuff too seriously.
 
Thank you guys so much for the valuable information. I'm going to soften the lawn mower blade steel first and make a blade and handle out of it to tweak my designs I have laid out, and go from there. I plan on making practical fixed blade knives that are affordable but of superb fit and finish. I love high end custom knives, but I'm a user. I use my pocket knives and my fixed blades. That's what I plan on making hahahaha knives where you get a great value for your money.
 
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