Anyone ever heat treat AEB-L without cryo or sub zero?

L

Lo/Rez

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Feb 10, 2013
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At the risk of being told I am a bone head I'm posting this question. I'm going to be doing a small (under 6" knife) in 3/32" AEB-L and don't want to drive for an hour to pick up some dry ice for what is essentially a test of ergonomics and visual appeal. I would still like to get the best performance out of it I can and it appears that 60Rc is not beyond the realm of possibility without a sub zero quench. Has anyone gone this route? Another question for when I do the sub zero quench....is it possible to substitute isopropyl alcohol, kerosene, or naptha for denatured ethanol alcohol if I can not find any? Once I do settle on a design I will definitely be doing a sub zero quench with AEB-L. Thanks in advance.
 
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Denatured alcohol is available in the paint department of most any hardware store or home center. It's used as the solvent for Shellac and for clean up.
 
I was under the impression that acetone and Kerosene were the two most common fluids used for the home version of subzero treatment. Chuck's chart says -95F. I didn't think that dry ice would get you quite that low, more like -80F?
 
Dry ice is actually -109. It definitely makes a difference in performance, especially when you consider the cost and ease.
 
Good to know. The Guys from Bohler-Uddeholm told me at Blade that dry ice was not really cold enough for stuff like Elmax, but it required like -120F or so.
darrin sanders said:
Dry ice is actually -109. It definitely makes a difference in performance, especially when you consider the cost and ease.
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Thats really good to know because the one time that I have used AEB-L for some kitchen knives for family members, I sent it out with some CPM 3V blades because I just didn't have the cash to pony up for even a decent used dewar for the LN. I still have some AEB-L on hand.
darrin sanders said:
They are correct, ELMAX & M390 require LN but dry ice is fine for AEB-L/13C26
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You can use AEB-L without cold treatment. If you have a copy of Verhoeven's book for bladesmiths, he goes over some heat treatment for these types of stainless steels. Basically, you can use an austenizing treatment just hot enough. I'll look through it tonight and get back to you. IIRC, the treatment starts at around 1050 deg C, or so, maybe 1010 C.
 
jdm61 said:
Thats really good to know because the one time that I have used AEB-L for some kitchen knives for family members, I sent it out with some CPM 3V blades because I just didn't have the cash to pony up for even a decent used dewar for the LN. I still have some AEB-L on hand.
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The dry ice slurry is fine for AEB-L and S35VN. I've done maybe 25 blades or so with those two steels, and they work great. I wait until I have about 5 or more stainless blades to do, then the dry ice/acetone is only a few bucks per blade, as I have to buy 10lbs min at my supplier. AEB-L at Rc62 is a great performer. :thumbup:
 
me2 said:
You can use AEB-L without cold treatment. If you have a copy of Verhoeven's book for bladesmiths, he goes over some heat treatment for these types of stainless steels. Basically, you can use an austenizing treatment just hot enough. I'll look through it tonight and get back to you. IIRC, the treatment starts at around 1050 deg C, or so, maybe 1010 C.
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Thanks. I tried to read it but this is all new to me so your translation will be appreciated. I will be plate quenching the steel if that makes any difference.
 
Willie71 said:
The dry ice slurry is fine for AEB-L and S35VN. I've done maybe 25 blades or so with those two steels, and they work great. I wait until I have about 5 or more stainless blades to do, then the dry ice/acetone is only a few bucks per blade, as I have to buy 10lbs min at my supplier. AEB-L at Rc62 is a great performer. :thumbup:
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The funny part is that the welding supply house that sells LN is right across the street from my shop whereas I would get dry ice at the supermarket 1/2 mile down the road. They are both cheap. The issue is the dewar. Still can't pony up the cash for one just yet, otherwise I would use LN.
 
jdm61 said:
The funny part is that the welding supply house that sells LN is right across the street from my shop whereas I would get dry ice at the supermarket 1/2 mile down the road. They are both cheap. The issue is the dewar. Still can't pony up the cash for one just yet, otherwise I would use LN.
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I've had a lot of LN put in a wide mouth thermos before I had a dewar, not as good as the dewar but no problem lasting
a couple of days.
Ken.
 
Lo/Rez said:
Thanks. I tried to read it but this is all new to me so your translation will be appreciated. I will be plate quenching the steel if that makes any difference.
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I had a chance to check it. Here is what resulted by his experiments with AEB-L. Using an austenizing temperature between 1850 and 1900 F and then quenching quickly will result in less than 5% retained austenite. There will be a slightly higher volume of chromium carbide, and slightly lower hardness. You may not be able to keep the hardness above 62 after tempering with this, but you'd have to try and see. Ovens vary, but the lower the austenizing temperature and the faster the quench, the better off you'll be, provided you stay above 1850 F. The shorter the soak the better too, but you have to be able to dissolve the carbides. I think Verhoeven used a 4-5 minute soak after reaching temperature, so 10 to 20 minutes total.
 
Awesome. Thanks. I have both 3/16" and 1/8" steel......so I would heat to 1560F and hold it there for 10-20 minutes them ramp it up as fast as possible to 1900F and keep it there for 10 minutes then plate quench and temper 2x (two hours each time) at 250F? Cooling to room temperature between tempers. I thought I read somewhere that throwing it in your freezer is supposed to help it out a bit. Not sure on that one though.
 
Lo/Rez, do you have 3/16 AEB-L? If so, where did you get it. The thickest that I have ever seen even mentioned is .156 and the thickest that I have seen for sale retail is .130 and it took a while for the supplies like Aldo and Chuck to get that.
 
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